Live data from Hacker News

Calling for Antitrust Reform

blog.mozilla.org

171–180 of 212 posts

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#171

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/299... 6 Republican and 6 Democrat cosponsors. I like when they work together :]

My experience has been when they work together, it's because it's good for them and bad for us.

It does not sound like a healthy democracy. Why?

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#172
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux has more than 50 million US MAU, no?

Not as an online platform, no. Or at least not as one owned by the Linux Foundation or Linus.

AICOA 2(a)(9):

  ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that—

  (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform;

  (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, including software applications, between and among consumers or businesses not controlled by the platform operator; or

  (C) enables user searches or queries that access or display a large volume of information.
It's an "operating system" that certainly meets (C) and arguably meets (A) and (B) as well.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#173

"We are disadvantaged by the fact that current and future Firefox users, many of whom are privacy and security focused, cannot easily install and keep Firefox as their preferred browser because of confusing operating system messages and settings." uhhh really?

Maybe people who are privacy and security focused shouldn't use operating systems that track you. This is like trying to save a sinking ship by keeping your shoes dry.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#174
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not as an online platform, no. Or at least not as one owned by the Linux Foundation or Linus.

AICOA 2(a)(9): ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that— (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform; (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, includin…

Linux is a kernel, on its own it does not meet any of these criteria. An "operating system" would be something like Debian or Ubuntu, and at least the latter one has already had scandals regarding advertising.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#175
post #149

>A fair playing field is vital to ensure that Mozilla and other independent companies can continue to act as a counterweight to big tech You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

There you go. Mozilla also knows it and the CEO has admitted it. [0] After 14 years of promising to live without Google's money, [0] they still cannot find a way to make money and are chronically reliant on Google bank-rolling them as over 80% of their revenues are from Google. Thunderbird, Firefox VPN, Firefox OS, all failures. They are essentially on life support. A joke to achieving their mission statement without…

What are the alternatives? How should Mozilla fund itself? It's the same problem that every piece of open source software has: developers cost serious money and relying on unpaid volunteers is unsustainable as well as dangerous (see https://xkcd.com/2347/ for the appropriate meme).

Some projects have attempted to solve that problem by providing enterprise consulting (MySQL), SaaS hosting (Elasticsearch), getting funded/acquired by a megacorp (Google, IBM, Oracle)... but for Mozilla and its various projects I can't see any way of monetization.

> Firefox OS, all failures.

Again, the same problem: Google and Apple have probably sunk dozens of billions of dollars into Android and iOS. It is impossible to create a viable competition against such massive amounts of money, even Microsoft with its advantage of many years of experience with Windows CE / Windows Phone and the bankroll of being Microsoft has failed.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#176
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any evidence that Google pays masnick or techdirt?

Mike's own website: https://copia.is/ (scroll down to sponsorship logos) Copia has also been listed on Google's own public policy transparency website in the past, though it's absent at the moment. EDIT: This version of the disclosure is still up: https://services.google.com/fh/files/misc/trade_association_... Note that the Google Public Policy Team's explicit purpose is to influence laws to be favorable to the compa…

They are listed as a 3rd party org. In the same list as the EFF, Public Knowledge, and the Democrat and Republican Attorneys General Associations.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#177
post #44

> (2) BUSINESS USER.—The term “business user”— > [skip a little] (B) does not include a person that— > [skip a little] > (ii) is controlled by the Government of the People's Republic of China or the government of another foreign adversary. Might want to read not only the article but the actual legislation. This is an interesting snippet that says interesting things about how Congress is looking at the broader busines…

So is this good or bad for them I wonder? The word “adversary” seems to imply that it’s antagonist but hmmm.

It means that users in China do not count towards a monopoly. So american firms are allowed to monopolize the Chinese market without restrictions in this bill.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AICOA 2(a)(9): ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that— (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform; (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, includin…

Linux is a kernel, on its own it does not meet any of these criteria. An "operating system" would be something like Debian or Ubuntu, and at least the latter one has already had scandals regarding advertising.

[deleted]

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AICOA 2(a)(9): ONLINE PLATFORM.—The term “online platform” means a website, online or mobile application, operating system, digital assistant, or online service that— (A) enables a user to generate content that can be viewed by other users on the platform or to interact with other content on the platform; (B) facilitates the offering, advertising, sale, purchase, payment, or shipping of products or services, includin…

Linux is a kernel, on its own it does not meet any of these criteria. An "operating system" would be something like Debian or Ubuntu, and at least the latter one has already had scandals regarding advertising.

[deleted]

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you're not allowed to > preference the products, services, or lines of business of the covered platform operator over those of another business user on the covered platform in a manner that would materially harm competition I really like this when you think about the problem that it's trying to solve (Amazon ranking Amazon products at the top, or Google showing Google Flights above all other services). But in p…

If I had a VC firm, should HN be forced to give my post looking to hire the same prominence it gives their own? Should grocery stores not be allowed to market their own brands? Shouid a TV network not be allowed to market its own shows above that of competitors?

If any of those entities have a functional monopoly, then yes they will (and in my opinion should) experience restrictions on those activities. The bill is drafted to target the big players.

Antitrust laws aren't meant to be fair, they're specifically intended to make business harder for the monopolies affected and easier for their competition. They're meant to put a finger on the scales to counterbalance the massive anti-competitive advantages afforded by having a monopoly. The most benign of actions can make competing basically impossible when they're performed by a company that has complete control over the market.

We do this because monopolies in a vacuum are self-reinforcing and that leads to dysfunction in the market. Monopolies don't have to have a better product or service to remain a monopoly - the power to crush the competition afforded by having captured the market is often enough to maintain it.

Post reply on HN