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The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

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Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#31

Post by wiz21c »

kube-system wrote: post #22
bergenty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s a bargaining tactic. We won’t work for a dismal wage. It makes a statement. This failure is worth a lot.

They filed chapter 7. It’s gone. Many symphonies around the US are struggling with money. If your income can’t pay the bills, you can’t operate. This isn’t the first one to shut down and it won’t be the last. Patronage is declining.

If your income can't pay the bill, then society as whole must think about it's useful to keep you alive or not.

There is another world outside the economical one.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#32

Post by Veen »

evouga wrote: post #3
WalterGR wrote: post #2

Seems to be some background here: https://sanantonioreport.org/san-antonio-symphony-2021-2022-...

Honestly from this article nobody comes off looking great: there are musicians refusing to accept fiscal reality on one side, and management acting in bad faith and firing the conductor out of spite on the other. Pity.

The musicians are keenly aware of fiscal reality, namely their ability to pay rent and bills if they had accepted the offer.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#33

Post by Animats »

Here's management's final offer:[1]

The Symphony Society, which governs the local symphony through a board of trustees and management, made a “Last, Best and Final” offer on September 13.

That offer would:

- Cut the number of full-time symphony musicians from 72 to 42.

- Reduce the symphony season length from 31 weeks to 26 weeks.

- Slash the salaries of full-time musicians from roughly $36,000 a year to $24,000.

- Hire some musicians part-time with an $11,000 salary.

The proposed pay cuts follow two years of little-to-no income for many of the musicians who were furloughed in 2020 during the pandemic and returned in January of 2021 with reduced salaries and fewer performances due to safety protocols that limited the number of performers who could be on stage. The changes meant some musicians made just 20% of their typical symphony salary.

The union, represented by a select group of symphony musicians and representatives of the American Federation of Musicians Local 23, did not accept the Symphony Society’s offer.

[1] https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2022/03/28/why-is-the-san-an...

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#34

Post by cperciva »

Some important context here: The AFM is quite militant, and in its bylaws stipulates that individual locals cannot ratify a collective agreement without the approval of the AFM. Eight years ago, when the Vancouver Musicians Association (AFM local 145) negotiated a contract the AFM didn't like, their response was to fire the VMA board, fine the the board members personally $50,000 each, and rip up the contract which the membership had ratified.

It's entirely possibly that the musicians of the San Antonio Symphony are willing to negotiate a contract but the AFM won't let them.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#35

Post by sjtindell »

pSYoniK wrote: post #26

I fully agree with drewcoo's comment. I cannot believe the discussions occurring here surrounding professional musicians, people who have trained for years to hone their skills. I cannot believe that the attitude towards a union -"wouldn't they all be better now since they'd still be employed"? These are statements made by someone who never had to face the reality of the fact that sometimes a job offers so little mon…

I don’t see this at all. They didn’t make less than you because of some moral failing by society at large. They made less because there is such a glut of artists that the bottom pay rate is literally less than zero, hence “do it for the exposure”. There is more art created every day today than ever before. The old school art forms you think are so crucial just aren’t.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#36

Post by vimax »

sjtindell wrote: post #35
pSYoniK wrote: post #26

I fully agree with drewcoo's comment. I cannot believe the discussions occurring here surrounding professional musicians, people who have trained for years to hone their skills. I cannot believe that the attitude towards a union -"wouldn't they all be better now since they'd still be employed"? These are statements made by someone who never had to face the reality of the fact that sometimes a job offers so little mon…

I don’t see this at all. They didn’t make less than you because of some moral failing by society at large. They made less because there is such a glut of artists that the bottom pay rate is literally less than zero, hence “do it for the exposure”. There is more art created every day today than ever before. The old school art forms you think are so crucial just aren’t.

Nothing shows this like walking in Austin and seeing homeless musicians on every corner just as good as the live band you paid to go see.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#37

Post by qeternity »

sjtindell wrote: post #35
pSYoniK wrote: post #26

I fully agree with drewcoo's comment. I cannot believe the discussions occurring here surrounding professional musicians, people who have trained for years to hone their skills. I cannot believe that the attitude towards a union -"wouldn't they all be better now since they'd still be employed"? These are statements made by someone who never had to face the reality of the fact that sometimes a job offers so little mon…

I don’t see this at all. They didn’t make less than you because of some moral failing by society at large. They made less because there is such a glut of artists that the bottom pay rate is literally less than zero, hence “do it for the exposure”. There is more art created every day today than ever before. The old school art forms you think are so crucial just aren’t.

Exactly this. All of the holier than thou disgust at economics and ROI just means OP doesn’t understand those are the consequences of demand.

The reality is that the vast majority of people would rather entertain themselves shopping in retail than going to a symphony. Pass judgement all you like, but it won’t change the reality that people simply don’t value “the arts” as much as you do (or at least, the specific arts that you do).

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#38

Post by cperciva »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #29
josephcsible wrote: post #4

If the musicians weren't unionized, wouldn't they all be better off right now since they'd still be employed?

What's stopping the entire union from starting their own symphony as a co-op. I mean there's a lot of unemployed musicians in San Antonio now.... They can drop the baggage (the board of directors), hire a marketing consultant and some ancillary staff, and maybe do other things with the arts in the area.

What's stopping the entire union from starting their own symphony as a co-op.

The AFM won't let them. Members aren't allowed to take gigs which pay less than union-defined minimum rates. In many cases they're not even allowed to donate their services to non-profits; the closest they're allowed to do is to get paid, remit union dues, and donate cash to the non-profit.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#39

Post by kube-system »

sjtindell wrote: post #35
pSYoniK wrote: post #26

I fully agree with drewcoo's comment. I cannot believe the discussions occurring here surrounding professional musicians, people who have trained for years to hone their skills. I cannot believe that the attitude towards a union -"wouldn't they all be better now since they'd still be employed"? These are statements made by someone who never had to face the reality of the fact that sometimes a job offers so little mon…

I don’t see this at all. They didn’t make less than you because of some moral failing by society at large. They made less because there is such a glut of artists that the bottom pay rate is literally less than zero, hence “do it for the exposure”. There is more art created every day today than ever before. The old school art forms you think are so crucial just aren’t.

Poor symphony pay is not because of labor oversupply. It’s due to a lack of revenue. Many rely highly on grants and donations to make payroll, with ticket sales only being a small fraction of their income. The budget is determined by how many wealthy donors send in money.

Re: The Board of Directors Announces the Dissolution of the San Antonio Symphony

#40

Post by croes »

kube-system wrote: post #24
drewcoo wrote: post #23

The reactions here so far are ridiculous. These are professional musicians with real skills, each of them with many years of training. They walked because the best case scenario was their already meagre salaries being cut. They weren't making dev salaries after a few months of a boot camp. After years of dedicated study, the average salary for a symphony musician is about $70,000.[1] The San Antonio musicians already…

$70,000 is a full time salary at a relatively successful symphony in a large city. It’s the symphonic musician’s equivalent of making it into the big leagues. Many more are part time and pay far far less. I have a family member who has played in a couple different mid sized city professional orchestras. If you consider preparation and rehearsal time, the pay for either of them equates to less than minimum wage.

From the provided link

"Comparably reports that the average annual pay for a U.S. orchestra member is $69,86"

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