Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 582 posts

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#391

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy »

jancsika wrote: post #254
wardedVibe wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost like they didn't read the article... They're very clear about the allegations

Frankly, I don't understand rule that prohibits barking at commenters who clearly didn't read the article. That's what I'm routing around here, and as a side-effect I'm annoying at least one bona fide reader.

This comment of mine will be off topic, which pollutes the comments here. This is why the rules prohibit chastising people for not the reading the article. Correct them and or down them. No need to chastise them as well.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#392

Post by ineedasername »

rendall wrote: post #369
ineedasername wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? Sex trafficking & abuse especially of underage people isn't a "live and let live" thing. Neither are co-workers assigning hundreds of thousands of dollars in vendor contracts to themselves or their organization. If you think the author was too far removed from sex trafficking allegations to make an issue of it then this one is still very much appropriate to raise a red flag over.

> Sex trafficking & abuse... Did he observe sex trafficking? He did not. He read about 25 year old allegations. What he actually observed was ... wine. That Google managers already knew about.

Yes, which I mentioned, so thank you for restating my second point.

Failure of immediate managers to act on employees giving themselves hundred of thousands of dollars in contracts seems a good issue to speak out about, especially when the author might have been fired in retaliation for bringing the issue up in the first place. Your attempt to minimize it as just "... wine" is a thin veil to cover such a casual dismissal of the issue.

What exactly do you object to here? What threshold of wrongdoing do you hold up as necessary to cross before speaking out is appropriate? You're willing to shove aside illegal firing and unethical self-dealing, so what is enough to stop you from being annoyed that a person goes public on something like this? It feels very strange to need to defend the author's actions as reasonable, so I'm at a loss to understand your point of view here. Are you upset the author is making an issue of it in the first place, or simply that it's getting this much attention? Or is the issue that it probably wouldn't be considered newsworthy if Google or other high profile company wasn't involved? I have to think think there's something more substantial behind your opinion to be so dismissive of the issue, so what is it?

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#393

Post by throwoutway »

jollybean wrote: post #366
aerovistae wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what this comment was meant to clarify - the article already made this clear. If anything, your comment's reference to parents adds confusion rather than clarification.

The article presents the slightly paranoid perspective of one person. I don't think anyone should come to understand the nature of an organization by arbitrary outsiders. A lot of it is going to be hearsay. That said, I'm inclined to believe most of it, and least the 'gist' of it. I wouldn't be so fully quick to judge either the cult and certainly not it's members either. There are a lot of reasons people can be invo…

One person? Paranoid?

The author linked to a ton of external evidence, articles, and even podcasts about the cult. It’s not like the author is making up potential fiction

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#394

Post by woodruffw »

throwoutway wrote: post #385
woodruffw wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cults are not “obscure religious groups.” It varies widely by state (and in federal jurisprudence), but most states have a “free association”-style test: if members aren’t free to come and go, it’s a cult and not a religion. Google would not be exposed to any significant liability here. Particularly not when the cult has a well-documented history of sexual abuse.

On the contrary, google employees would be breaking the law by hiring primarily because of religious preference and thus discriminating against competent candidates of other religious (or non) preference

Cults are not religions. The body of decisions is remarkably explicit about this, when you consider how difficult the question “what is a religion” actually is.

Edit: I forgot to provide references. Here’s a summary[1] of a 1988 California Supreme Court ruling in which the court determined that cult conduct does not fall under religious protections, even if the cult’s members might genuinely believe the cult’s doctrines. In other words, an internal decision by Google to terminate cult members because of their history of sex abuse or self dealing is unlikely expose them to civil litigation risk.

[1]: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-10-18-mn-4552-s...

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#395

Post by [deleted] »

abeppu wrote: post #274

So, if the author was fired for the reasons they believe, that's pretty bad behavior. But if he had not been fired, what was management supposed to have done about the cult members working for this department? Yes, the cult's leader sounds like a pretty awful person, but he wasn't working there. What were the cult members doing in their work in the department that was clearly wrong? It's suggested that there was favo…

[deleted]

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#398

Post by dragonwriter »

jancsika wrote: post #226

Just to clarify-- this article is about a modern religious cult. Modern religious cults are groups that use a whole host of well-known manipulative techniques to trap victims in insular groups which are then difficult to escape after the fact. Leaders of those groups directly abuse those victims physically and/or emotionally (and often drain their bank accounts as well). This isn't, "My parents are worried about my w…

> Modern religious cults are groups

...whose members are protected, the same as other religious groups, against workplace discrimination by federal (and, in this case, separately also by state) law based on association, even if there are allegations, even “credible allegations”, and even proven wrongdoing by the organization (as distinct from the particular employees) itself.

While it probably won't always result in firing, going to coworkers to complain about the concentration of people of in the workplace and the fact that they contribute to and that also there have been allegations of wrongdoing made against in general which should result in extra suspicion of its members in the company, and also that is associated with and and also which adds extra suspicion... is rarely going to go well.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#399

Post by earleybird »

dcow wrote: post #307
jonathankoren wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Partake in the Holy Communion of the Perpetual $1.50 Hot Dog Combo.

Ah, the hot dog tithe. To be raised to $2.50 soonTM.

"Not so" according to RandomMediaOutletTM[0]

[0] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/phew-costco-absolutely-pos...

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#400

Post by artifact_44 »

dubswithus wrote: post #370
abeppu wrote: post #274

So, if the author was fired for the reasons they believe, that's pretty bad behavior. But if he had not been fired, what was management supposed to have done about the cult members working for this department? Yes, the cult's leader sounds like a pretty awful person, but he wasn't working there. What were the cult members doing in their work in the department that was clearly wrong? It's suggested that there was favo…

The leader of the cult is accused of grooming minors. That means Google is funding the next Jeffrey Esptein. > Are you supposed to then ask everyone in the department about their religious affiliations, or whether they've given money to a fringe religious organization? That also seems like a really unhealthy road for a company to go down. I’d suggest a question like this: 1) Are you affiliated with an organization th…

No post body was provided.
Post reply on HN