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The silent majority of experts (2012)

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Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#121

Post by blindmute »

fleddr wrote: post #106
maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

Horrified is a bit strong, but you have a point. There's a few themes that are strongly popular or unpopular by some type of community consensus. In those cases, it doesn't seem to matter what you have to say as minds are already made up. Another interesting effect I experienced is regarding expert credibility. When I found this place, I was impressed. I figured the world's top engineers are posting. I see them writi…

When you take this to its conclusion, you either read these forums for only novelty and political opinion, like I've come to, or you just get off the forum. Being an expert in a few things is not good for ones own entertainment

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#122

Post by josephg »

peterangular wrote: post #117
dvtrn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“setback” Interesting. I was nodding in somewhat agreement until this, because as a city kid I don’t see it as a set back, just another tool in the utility belt of life. That said, if all one has are ‘street-smarts’ (just like if all one has is ‘book-learning’) well, it may just mean the pivot point is they’re just gonna have a different calculus for getting by, than someone on the opposite end.

I'm contextually referring to those kids who have to learn "street-smarts" in the home as a survival mechanism. The same "street-smarts" you're valuing should never be something that is required of a child in their home, against their parents . When it is a constant in your life to stay "street-smart" it is a setback because it drowns out other intelligence - this happens with abusive parents. Although related, I am…

Exactly. The complex part about it is that our survival strategies often express themselves as some of our greatest strengths too. For example, to feel safe in my home as a kid I learned to actively, constantly monitor the emotional state of the people around me. That strategy as a child makes me really good at therapy or therapy adjacent roles, because tracking someone’s emotional state is a skill I’ve been practicing for decades.

The downside is I don’t know how to turn that off. Or to put it in other terms, I don’t have the capacity to choose whether I track other people’s emotional state or not. Tracking people’s emotional state all the time is exhausting, and distracting. When I’m doing that I’m not in touch with what I want or need in that moment. Growing up for me (with the help of a good therapist) currently involves learning to put that down. And it’s terrifying.

Basically every survival strategy also gives us superpowers. But it’s ok - we get to keep those superpowers even after we’ve healed those wounds.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#123

Post by fleddr »

blindmute wrote: post #121
fleddr wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrified is a bit strong, but you have a point. There's a few themes that are strongly popular or unpopular by some type of community consensus. In those cases, it doesn't seem to matter what you have to say as minds are already made up. Another interesting effect I experienced is regarding expert credibility. When I found this place, I was impressed. I figured the world's top engineers are posting. I see them writi…

When you take this to its conclusion, you either read these forums for only novelty and political opinion, like I've come to, or you just get off the forum. Being an expert in a few things is not good for ones own entertainment

Frankly, yes, the non-tech discussions are the most entertaining and valuable to me. I really do like the format of slow lengthy discussions.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#124

Post by astrange »

Xeronate wrote: post #112
fleddr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like a dating "expert". The only way to become such expert is to date a lot, which means you're not very good at dating in the first place. That is, if we assume that the point of dating is to efficiently find somebody for a long term relationship.

That's a bad assumption to make. Plenty of people just want to have fun dating.

The problem is that if you want to get married, you should take advice from someone who only ever had to go on one first date, not someone who keeps going on them.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#125

Post by fleddr »

MAMAMassakali wrote: post #115
fleddr wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrified is a bit strong, but you have a point. There's a few themes that are strongly popular or unpopular by some type of community consensus. In those cases, it doesn't seem to matter what you have to say as minds are already made up. Another interesting effect I experienced is regarding expert credibility. When I found this place, I was impressed. I figured the world's top engineers are posting. I see them writi…

Gell-Mann amnesia

I had no idea there was a term for it, thanks so much!

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#126

Post by fleddr »

Xeronate wrote: post #112
fleddr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of like a dating "expert". The only way to become such expert is to date a lot, which means you're not very good at dating in the first place. That is, if we assume that the point of dating is to efficiently find somebody for a long term relationship.

That's a bad assumption to make. Plenty of people just want to have fun dating.

Fine, change the term to "relationship expert". If you're good at maintaining a healthy romantic relationship, you'll have two, three, but optimally even one in a lifetime. That doesn't make you an expert, it still is the norm.

If instead you had 30 relationships, whilst for sure you had a lot of experience, I wouldn't really trust your advise as an "expert".

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#127

Post by manmal »

mathattack wrote: post #24
insightcheck wrote: post #6

Yep. On a related note, when I was younger, I searched for advice from experts for how to develop expertise in studying and productivity on Reddit. It led to lots of highly-upvoted advice (including stuff like supplements, largely with few real benefits besides placebo), popular blogs by influencers (like Scott Young), and popular self-help books. However, the actual experts I knew in high school who later went on to…

Yes. Generally people giving advice publicly are in the advice business, not the business on which they are advising. I worked with a Salesperson who got fired for non-performance, who then reinvented themselves as a Sales guru by publicly giving tons of advice. People who are experts in their business (as opposed to being advice folks) tend to give it quietly 1 on 1 to people they trust. It’s a Close Friend game rat…

> Generally people giving advice publicly are in the advice business, not the business on which they are advising

Twitter has lots of tech advice, and most of these authors don’t give advice for a living. People like John Carmack regularly share how they achieved things.

Authoring a book or hosting a podcast is btw often not a great deal from an ROI perspective. It could help you get hired, but it’d be way easier to just study leetcode instead.

I think you could cut people and their intentions a bit more slack.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#128

Post by astrange »

d23 wrote: post #35
maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

I've become a lot more willing to burn my karma on here as of late. Not because I want to, per se, but what's the point of getting it if you can't spend it occasionally when you really have something you need to say?

Whenever I get downvoted for something, I tend to have another comment on the same page that says nearly the same thing and gets upvoted just as much, so it all evens out. Can't say I get any information out of this.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#129

Post by creakingstairs »

peterangular wrote: post #56
plonk wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of my peers had middle-class parents working normal jobs who just loved unconditionally + put effort forward... the difference between them and those who had less than ideal upbringings is typically vast. Do you mean their career success, or their personalities in general?

Both. Positive upbringings helped those folks navigate everything in life better from simple chores like laundry, to relationships, to school, to careers... etc. People are more healthy when they're in an environment that promotes emotional/educational growth vs. when they're forced into a survival mentality. Those who had the opportunity to grow in safety have an easier time socially vs. those who had to navigate tu…

I always didn’t understand how some of people were so positive/nice all the time and I thought they were really good at faking it. Then one time I spent a bit of time with their family and immediately understood why.

> Much of it is just trust

You are absolutely right. There was so much trust between the kids and the parent. You could tell from the way they act and talk around each other. That experience was very enlightening for me.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#130

Post by 789itsfine »

peterangular wrote: post #117
dvtrn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“setback” Interesting. I was nodding in somewhat agreement until this, because as a city kid I don’t see it as a set back, just another tool in the utility belt of life. That said, if all one has are ‘street-smarts’ (just like if all one has is ‘book-learning’) well, it may just mean the pivot point is they’re just gonna have a different calculus for getting by, than someone on the opposite end.

I'm contextually referring to those kids who have to learn "street-smarts" in the home as a survival mechanism. The same "street-smarts" you're valuing should never be something that is required of a child in their home, against their parents . When it is a constant in your life to stay "street-smart" it is a setback because it drowns out other intelligence - this happens with abusive parents. Although related, I am…

This is where terms like "cycles of poverty/abuse", "equality of outcome", "welfare", and the like come into play, erroneously or not. Although it may vex a not-insignificant number of people: if one accepts that the state of the parent's life largely determines the state of the life of even the most talented or determined youth, it must also be accepted that any useful intervention is going to assist the parents in concert with the child. In fact, if we accept that there is a sort of psychosocial inheritance from even our dead forebears, we must also see to the rectification of their troubles, as much as we may be able to.

I think we all know what we're talking about when we use terms like "street smarts" and "streetwise" instead of "common sense" or "vigilance" or "poise". So, then, I'm hoping that there's clarity with regards to the kinds of policies the above statements, if accepted, should lead us to support. I'm trying not to state them directly because their utterance tends to lead to a kneejerk reaction; let's see if some rhetorical remove is helpful in quelling passions.

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