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Calling for Antitrust Reform

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#11

Post by joecool1029 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #7
joecool1029 wrote: post #4

>A fair playing field is vital to ensure that Mozilla and other independent companies can continue to act as a counterweight to big tech You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

Why do people act like that's some kind of "gotcha"? To me that fact gives it more weight, not less.

At the end of the day their very existence has enabled Google to argue 'We're not an abusive monopoly. See? We fund this very outspoken open web technology company'.

I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming independence when they are fully dependent on tech giants. The end result is a delay in the courts using already existing antitrust law to address the problem.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#12

Post by j-bos »

joecool1029 wrote: post #4

>A fair playing field is vital to ensure that Mozilla and other independent companies can continue to act as a counterweight to big tech You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

If anything that lends weight to the message. Like an ant calling out the elephant.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#13

Post by echelon »

joecool1029 wrote: post #4

>A fair playing field is vital to ensure that Mozilla and other independent companies can continue to act as a counterweight to big tech You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

> You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

Google used venture dollars to grow to a scale that they could fund the biggest browser team in the world, show download links on the web portal every single person on the planet uses, and pay OEMs to pre-install it. They then bought in early into smartphones and distribute devices with their browser and Google defaults.

They use their browser to show preference to other Google products, and they cripple ad blocking tech to make more revenue.

Firefox had a healthy percent of browser market share before Google showed up. This is like private equity buying the land your business sits on and giving you a pat on the back for job well done.

I am far from anti-capitalist, but you have to realize these monopolistic moves are harming competition and making the tech landscape harder for everyone else to compete.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#15

Post by joecool1029 »

j-bos wrote: post #12
joecool1029 wrote: post #4

>A fair playing field is vital to ensure that Mozilla and other independent companies can continue to act as a counterweight to big tech You literally exist on Google revenue provided in order to prevent antitrust litigation, hardly independent.

If anything that lends weight to the message. Like an ant calling out the elephant.

You can rationalize it that way, I get it. However, last I checked Mozilla has a lawyer as their CEO. Why do you think they haven't tested this idea in court if the message is so good?

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#16

Post by huitzitziltzin »

superb-owl wrote: post #3

The vertical monopolies enjoyed by tech behemoths are absurd. Ever since the Internet Explorer antitrust case [1] it should be clear that things like Apple disallowing other browsers in iOS or Google promoting its own sites in search results are illegal and anticompetitive. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... .

I teach antitrust to grads and undergrads.

It doesn’t do anyone any good to call any of these firms “monopolies.” It’s not accurate, not for any of them.

Nor was monopoly the issue in the Microsoft case (that was about bundling).

There may be reasons to look at antitrust law and to change it with some of these firms and their behaviors in mind but “vertical monopoly” isn’t an accurate characterization of any of them.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#17

Post by wudangmonk »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #5

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/299... 6 Republican and 6 Democrat cosponsors. I like when they work together :]

I only skimmed the bill but wheneven I see both parties working together I know I need to be extra careful and look for hidden dangers because I am cynical like that.

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#18

Post by paulryanrogers »

huitzitziltzin wrote: post #16
superb-owl wrote: post #3

The vertical monopolies enjoyed by tech behemoths are absurd. Ever since the Internet Explorer antitrust case [1] it should be clear that things like Apple disallowing other browsers in iOS or Google promoting its own sites in search results are illegal and anticompetitive. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor... .

I teach antitrust to grads and undergrads. It doesn’t do anyone any good to call any of these firms “monopolies.” It’s not accurate, not for any of them. Nor was monopoly the issue in the Microsoft case (that was about bundling). There may be reasons to look at antitrust law and to change it with some of these firms and their behaviors in mind but “vertical monopoly” isn’t an accurate characterization of any of them.

What do you prefer? Vertically bundling monopsonies?

Re: Calling for Antitrust Reform

#19

Post by paulryanrogers »

joecool1029 wrote: post #11
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people act like that's some kind of "gotcha"? To me that fact gives it more weight, not less.

At the end of the day their very existence has enabled Google to argue 'We're not an abusive monopoly. See? We fund this very outspoken open web technology company'. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of claiming independence when they are fully dependent on tech giants. The end result is a delay in the courts using already existing antitrust law to address the problem.

Mozilla may be getting played. Yet they don't only take money from Google for defaults. And at times they've used other defaults in the US too, like Yahoo.

There is still value there, and the good need not be enemy of the perfect.

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