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The silent majority of experts (2012)

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Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#71

Post by dfxm12 »

peterangular wrote: post #22
insightcheck wrote: post #6

Yep. On a related note, when I was younger, I searched for advice from experts for how to develop expertise in studying and productivity on Reddit. It led to lots of highly-upvoted advice (including stuff like supplements, largely with few real benefits besides placebo), popular blogs by influencers (like Scott Young), and popular self-help books. However, the actual experts I knew in high school who later went on to…

> Less in one's control, their parents were financially successful or were in competitive positions (e.g. were professors or physicians), so they may have learned these strategies from them, versus inventing them independently. As I grow older, I see a huge divide between those who have/had parental support vs those who don't/didn't. It doesn't even take financially or professionally successful parents. Many of my pe…

I think part of this that is important enough to be individually specified is that knowing you have parents who will keep a bed for you and put food on the table for you in case you take a (business, career, whatever) risk and it doesn't pay off as well as you had hoped is a huge advantage.

Not having to worry about that stuff, whether it's immediately after graduating from high school or college or when thinking about taking all your money and investing it in yourself/your new business venture is liberating.

Of course, this require two things of the parents, to put forth the effort like you say, and also to have the means to support a dependent.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#72

Post by peterangular »

pvarangot wrote: post #65
peterangular wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Less in one's control, their parents were financially successful or were in competitive positions (e.g. were professors or physicians), so they may have learned these strategies from them, versus inventing them independently. As I grow older, I see a huge divide between those who have/had parental support vs those who don't/didn't. It doesn't even take financially or professionally successful parents. Many of my pe…

I tell myself it's the difference between starting adulthood at 14 or whenever your family fails you, and starting it at 24 or 26 after college. The extra years of "streetwise" usually come at an expense of early onset of burnout, for various reasons. Leaving your shell with the energy to take over the world at 26 usually results in more productive endeavors than when you are a teenager.

Agree.

> The extra years of "streetwise"

Let's acknowledge exactly what "streetwise" is... it's the ability to operate in unsafe and not ideal environments in a way that maximizes personal safety.

It's a privilege to not have to be "streetwise" in regards to your parents/upbringing. So many kids are just out there trying not to get their asses beat only to get steamrolled by a crippled education system that has no resources to help them.

The setback that comes along with "streetwise" is immense

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#73

Post by peterangular »

dfxm12 wrote: post #71
peterangular wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Less in one's control, their parents were financially successful or were in competitive positions (e.g. were professors or physicians), so they may have learned these strategies from them, versus inventing them independently. As I grow older, I see a huge divide between those who have/had parental support vs those who don't/didn't. It doesn't even take financially or professionally successful parents. Many of my pe…

I think part of this that is important enough to be individually specified is that knowing you have parents who will keep a bed for you and put food on the table for you in case you take a (business, career, whatever) risk and it doesn't pay off as well as you had hoped is a huge advantage. Not having to worry about that stuff, whether it's immediately after graduating from high school or college or when thinking abo…

You're afforded way less risk when you don't have a safety net. There's also the emotional part of still being accepted even though you stumble... without parents you're missing a literal cornerstone of support

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#74

Post by closedloop129 »

maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

It would be nice if votes were more accessible. If it were possible to reduce the weight of those who downvote those comments, the overall ranking should improve.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#75

Post by JumpCrisscross »

pvarangot wrote: post #70
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these people didn't spend time online reading blogs and Reddit, or blogging/self-promoting themselves Or they’re online, they’re just not talking about what they’re experts in. Because they don’t want to spend their free time teaching a 101 class.

The main reason why I don't usually talk seriously about what I'm an expert in on Reddit is that I sometimes can't deal with the cringe from the replies, usually it's ok but it's been really bad a couple times and that just pushed me off. Now when I am commenting on something I consider myself an expert of it's usually jokes and sarcasm. Reddit is seriously full of teenagers LARPing as adults, or adults stoned to the…

Places like HN and Reddit are fun for things one has an understanding of but not expertise in. You can hash out arguments, get corrected when wrong and genuinely learn from the experience. For matters I have expertise in, I know the other experts. They’re more rewarding conversation on those topics.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#76

Post by kayamon »

whitepoplar wrote: post #59
maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

Care to share some of the stuff you've been horrified by on here? I'd love to read more.

haha try mentioning crypto and wait to see if a useful, informed, coherent discussion ensues.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#77

Post by [deleted] »

whitepoplar wrote: post #59
maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

Care to share some of the stuff you've been horrified by on here? I'd love to read more.

[deleted]

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#78

Post by dvtrn »

peterangular wrote: post #72
pvarangot wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tell myself it's the difference between starting adulthood at 14 or whenever your family fails you, and starting it at 24 or 26 after college. The extra years of "streetwise" usually come at an expense of early onset of burnout, for various reasons. Leaving your shell with the energy to take over the world at 26 usually results in more productive endeavors than when you are a teenager.

Agree. > The extra years of "streetwise" Let's acknowledge exactly what "streetwise" is... it's the ability to operate in unsafe and not ideal environments in a way that maximizes personal safety. It's a privilege to not have to be "streetwise" in regards to your parents/upbringing. So many kids are just out there trying not to get their asses beat only to get steamrolled by a crippled education system that has no re…

“setback”

Interesting. I was nodding in somewhat agreement until this, because as a city kid I don’t see it as a set back, just another tool in the utility belt of life.

That said, if all one has are ‘street-smarts’ (just like if all one has is ‘book-learning’) well, it may just mean the pivot point is they’re just gonna have a different calculus for getting by, than someone on the opposite end.

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#79

Post by headmelted »

maxk42 wrote: post #25

I think about this constantly while reading Hacker News. So many articles and comments by people whose level of enthusiasm doesn't match their experience. Try to voice a comment that goes against the flow of that enthusiasm and you'll be downvoted to oblivion, even if you speak with more experience and context than the masses. I'm horrified by some of the stuff I see here and feel like it's often useless to speak out…

To be honest I’ve come to suspect I may be guilty of this myself. I’m trying to do better at being open-minded to unpopular opinions (not always successfully).

Re: The silent majority of experts (2012)

#80

Post by photik »

hbn wrote: post #34
mathattack wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Generally people giving advice publicly are in the advice business, not the business on which they are advising. I worked with a Salesperson who got fired for non-performance, who then reinvented themselves as a Sales guru by publicly giving tons of advice. People who are experts in their business (as opposed to being advice folks) tend to give it quietly 1 on 1 to people they trust. It’s a Close Friend game rat…

"Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach."

In my experience this is likely one half of a principle in which there are at least as many examples of people who can do things really well, but have no idea how to pedagogically transmit the building blocks of their domain understanding to others in a tractionable way.

Maybe a more wholistic take on this is something like:

'Those that can't do, teach, and those that can't teach would really be doing everyone a huge favor if they would just go do somewhere.'

If this is a more complete take, it suggests to me that the master/apprentice paradigm existed for so long for a reason; masters have spent their lives specializing narrowly, not necessarily transmitting their understanding, thus the deconstruction of their expertise is only accessible via osmosis over time, because essentially they can't teach.

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