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A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

nytimes.com

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Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#141

Post by chicob »

ALittleLight wrote: post #124
chicob wrote: post #103

“We have longstanding employee and supplier policies in place to prevent discrimination and conflicts of interest, and we take those seriously.” Isn't adding a superfluous "and we take those seriously" the rhetorical equivalent of pouting? Every time I read this - after an account suspension, for example - the impression I get is that no, they don't really take those things seriously. They're just improvising or leav…

I just switched to hackernews from a Gmail conversation I was having with Google customer support. The chain started when a Google person sent me a follow-up from a chat conversation where the Google support person refused to help me. The follow-up mail said a reply "will come directly to me". I replied and a second emailer replied back to me to "thank you for your understanding". I replied again and yet another Goog…

There is nothing more annoying than a Customer Support Chinese Room of Kafka, where tickets are transferred around only to take us back to square one each time.

And if plausible deniability from senior management would just add insult to injury, plausibly, claiming that things are taken seriously when things are obviously being neglected is just gaslighting.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#142

Post by birksherty »

vizzier wrote: post #127
robonerd wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cults like this generally target and recruit damaged or otherwise vulnerable people. Also, they generally keep the crazy dialed down to a minimum in the beginning, then slow boil people over the course of several years. It often starts with "love bombing"; the cult heaps positive attention and praise on somebody who is unaccustomed to receiving anything like that.

Though a bit tongue in cheek this classic video covers the basics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBK5aKOr2Fw

This is brilliant. I thought I can't be manipulated easily. But after watching the video, I think I could have joined such a cult at some point. It basically boils down to giving love and attention to people who didn't get any and made to feel like a looser in their life before, specially by parents.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#143

Post by shaftway »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #58
mcntsh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to dream about working at Google until I interviewed with them. I got dragged along for months and largely ignored between interviews. The interviews themselves were impersonal and non interactive. They gave the impression that I should just shut up and write code in front of them and when I asked clarifying questions I barely got anything in response.

The experience was long and the recruiters were great but I definitely didn't feel like interviewers listened to what I had to say. Like I'd talk about past work, hostile managers, waiting 4 months for an admin to install software that was blocking a project. Then the Googler would ask something idiotic like, "tell me about a time you rallied your team to meet a strict deadline." All I could think was, "I just explai…

I think this is a by-product of some internal dynamics. A lot of teams push staff really hard to be interview trained because they see it as a funnel to get applicants for your team. I assume they think the interviewee will tell the recruiter "oh, I heard about foo team, are there any openings there?". This has gotten worse since perf started having a citizenship component. The easiest way to get citizenship points is to interview.

The worst was when you got picked for G&L interviews (Googliness and Leadership). Nobody defines those terms, so nobody knows how to interview for them. They give us a few sample questions for people at each level, so most people just blindly pick one or two and go with those. "Tell me about a time you rallied..." is definitely on that list.

Let's be honest, for most employees interviewing was a chore, and not one that they could see the outcomes of. So of course the experiences are going to drag out and be monotonous and robotic.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#144

Post by treeman79 »

derevaunseraun wrote: post #105

From the podcast: "He was the golden chain to heaven. The only way to get to heaven was to allow him sexual activity with me." ... What makes people join these groups to begin with?? Why do they believe such obvious lies?

Have raised kids and teens. They can be dumb as absolute shit.

One daughter at 18 asked who she should vote for. So I tried explaining both sides of issues so she could make up her own mind.

She got pissed and just told me tell her who to vote for. She had zero interest in thinking for herself from about 17 until 23 when she started to ask questions and wanted to understand things.

Which was weird as she had been a highly independent thinker until hormones went crazy.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#145

Post by noasaservice »

dang wrote: post #120
noasaservice wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caste discrimination is definitely a thing. HN has had numerous articles about this. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Anews.ycombinator.com+... reports 2400 links, since algolia is down for maintenance. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cisco-lawsuit/california-... is one of the bigger articles about Caste-based discrimination. Google also cancelled a talk over this topic as well. https://www.washingtonpost.com…

Of course it's a thing. As you pointed out, HN has had tons of discussion about it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31600149 . That has nothing to do with the GP comment being religious flamebait and therefore against the site guidelines, which it obviously was. I understand the internet forum instinct to look for specialized nefarious secret reasons when a standard moderation decision gets made, but really.

> That has nothing to do with the GP comment being religious flamebait and therefore against the site guidelines, which it obviously was.

Sure, I get that the comment was based partially in religious hatred and "flamebait". However, at the core of most of those types of comments are a kernel of truth. And if anything, PG has written about understanding those essential pieces of truth... even if they are uncomfortable.

And, converting a flamebait comment with a kernel of truth to an actual intellectual conversation should be the height of what HN ascribes to.

> I understand the internet forum instinct to look for specialized nefarious secret reasons when a standard moderation decision gets made, but really.

Wow. What you're ascribing a conspiracy theory to is what I would call "bias". And normal news orgs put a bias like (eg: "XYZ company is our sponsor"). I'm not invoking some super secret cabal, as your "nefarious secret reasons" would have it.

And I would ask that you follow the guidelines, primarily pertaining to "dont be snarky". I know I have a penchant to doing that sometimes, but I try not to.

" Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community. "

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#146

Post by whatshisface »

InefficientRed wrote: post #115

Setting aside the issue of cults, recruiting from church networks is fairly common. It's not surprising and often not nefarious. After all, a church is just another social setting. People also recruit from other non-professional networks -- adult sports leagues, hobbies, alumni networks, family friends, and so on. Churches are just another social group. I am, however, surprised more companies don't have explicit HR c…

It is one thing if someone brings in a guy they know from their soccer team to interview, another if 90% of the people in a department turn out to be playing on it.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#148

Post by ims »

kbarmettler wrote: post #129

As a former Oregon House resident, astonished to see it on the front page of HN. It's interesting to see the same strategy implemented at Google, apparently, that they reportedly used to get members employed by Yuba county. There was a minor scandal, an investigation leading to a bunch of firings, years ago. Allegedly members were using their ties to get the county to look the other way at countless unpermitted struc…

Fascinating. Have you written about your experience there?

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#149

Post by InefficientRed »

whatshisface wrote: post #146
InefficientRed wrote: post #115

Setting aside the issue of cults, recruiting from church networks is fairly common. It's not surprising and often not nefarious. After all, a church is just another social setting. People also recruit from other non-professional networks -- adult sports leagues, hobbies, alumni networks, family friends, and so on. Churches are just another social group. I am, however, surprised more companies don't have explicit HR c…

It is one thing if someone brings in a guy they know from their soccer team to interview, another if 90% of the people in a department turn out to be playing on it.

Yeah, bot would raise my alarm bells.

But a very important difference from the co.'s perspective is that discriminating against non-soccer-players isn't illegal...

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#150

Post by whatshisface »

InefficientRed wrote: post #149
whatshisface wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one thing if someone brings in a guy they know from their soccer team to interview, another if 90% of the people in a department turn out to be playing on it.

Yeah, bot would raise my alarm bells. But a very important difference from the co.'s perspective is that discriminating against non-soccer-players isn't illegal...

It's not that much of a difference, since the only way to get to 90% Manchester United is by discriminating against Liverpool.
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