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Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

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Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#121
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe? These are just implementations, right? Others will still be able to build tools? JetBrains isn't pushed out by this, is it? Java flight recorder, for example, wasn't always open source. While it's not ideal, I'm not sure the idea of closed source tools in an open language is all that unheard of.

Key tools of the platform not being open means the platform is either not open or not useable, take your pick.

[deleted]

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#123
post #37

This sort of thing has been MS's playbook since I was a kid, or earlier. It surprises me that people are still surprised when things like this happen. I especially think someone with Miguel de Icaza's experience should know better[0]. It's interesting to see the generational difference here. Many of my somewhat-younger (even only by 7-10 years) programmer/techie friends just don't remember the Microsoft of the 80s an…

I think what's more likely in this case is that MS under Satya really does want to be a good corporate citizen, but are finding themselves in a bind that threatens the whole organisation. They're spending up the wazoo on Xbox, still, to battle PlayStation. They were supposed to have conquered that market over 15 years ago and are still throwing money at it. Windows is hurting as a retail business. License costs have…

> They're spending up the wazoo on Xbox, still, to battle PlayStation.

Microsofts decision to release all of their new XBox games on PC was kinda bizarre to me. It basically guarantees the XBox as a gaming console is going to lose market share to the PlayStation and eventually die out because the core gaming market is going to pick PC + PS5 + Switch (or some subset of those) as the sensible combo to be able to play all the games on.

XBox as just a game publishing brand can never be as big of a deal as being one of the three major consoles.

Meanwhile the Switch totally justifies it's existence with cool hardware decisions and good exclusives. And the PS5 with kinda unique hardware decisions (the really fast SSD actually enables cool stuff, the dualsense triggers feel a bit more of a gimmick to me) but mostly good exclusives.

But hey, maybe I'm missing something here.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#124
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe? These are just implementations, right? Others will still be able to build tools? JetBrains isn't pushed out by this, is it? Java flight recorder, for example, wasn't always open source. While it's not ideal, I'm not sure the idea of closed source tools in an open language is all that unheard of.

Key tools of the platform not being open means the platform is either not open or not useable, take your pick.

This is like saying PCs aren't open because most people use Windows.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're a .NET developer who uses Linux, yes that sounds nice. On the other hand. Consider a prominent member one of the biggest open source projects leaves the project, joins Microsoft, and praises Microsoft and pushes semi-closed Microsoft technologies on every project, claiming Linux is dead without Microsoft, and we need to compromise by allowing these non-free technologies and porting almost everything to it.…

> DeIcaza (knowingly or unknowingly) was a part of an concentrated and coordinated effort to EEE Linux, and the open frameworks around it. The only person who does not know this is Icaza itself.

I can't talk about a person definitively who I don't know personally.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#126

The actual announcement is here: https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 It's not quite as dramatic as the OP is making it out to be.

> Existing users will be able to choose between the open-source OmniSharp powered system that exists today, or the new “'LSP Tools Host” which will provide access to additional experiences.

If OmniSharp remains open-source, I think people can still add more features to it, right?

Do C# developers really use VSCode? I use IntelliJ (closed source) to write Java application because IDE provides far more features than an editor.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#127
post #55

The actual announcement is here: https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 It's not quite as dramatic as the OP is making it out to be.

The web page is FUD, but the GitHub issue is describing yet another top level management decision which is totally not helpful source code wise and reputation wise. Creating a bridging host component for tools with multiple intellisense or debugging providers is okay, but the host must be open source to control what is happening. This is a strategic move to unify VS and VS Code ... And the open source debacle is the…

> host must be open source to control what is happening.

Open source does not mean that there is any control with other entities than Microsoft. We can see what is happening, but it is up the the Microsoft to decide what code is merged and so on.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#128

The actual announcement is here: https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 It's not quite as dramatic as the OP is making it out to be.

These comments from an OmniSharp contributor are particularly enlightening:

https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276#is...

https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276#is...

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#129
post #37

This sort of thing has been MS's playbook since I was a kid, or earlier. It surprises me that people are still surprised when things like this happen. I especially think someone with Miguel de Icaza's experience should know better[0]. It's interesting to see the generational difference here. Many of my somewhat-younger (even only by 7-10 years) programmer/techie friends just don't remember the Microsoft of the 80s an…

I think what's more likely in this case is that MS under Satya really does want to be a good corporate citizen, but are finding themselves in a bind that threatens the whole organisation. They're spending up the wazoo on Xbox, still, to battle PlayStation. They were supposed to have conquered that market over 15 years ago and are still throwing money at it. Windows is hurting as a retail business. License costs have…

Azure struggling to compete with AWS?

I wonder if this is specific to particular spaces, like very large enterprises maybe?

In the SME space, Azure is significantly more dominant in my experience.

All those companies where "Can't get fired for buying Microsoft" applies, went to Azure.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#130
post #55

The actual announcement is here: https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 It's not quite as dramatic as the OP is making it out to be.

The web page is FUD, but the GitHub issue is describing yet another top level management decision which is totally not helpful source code wise and reputation wise. Creating a bridging host component for tools with multiple intellisense or debugging providers is okay, but the host must be open source to control what is happening. This is a strategic move to unify VS and VS Code ... And the open source debacle is the…

This. My first reaction was - why are we posting FUD here. Then you see it: they're switching from an OSS component to a new component, which *will not be open-sourced*.

Retiring code with architectural changes is fine, it's normal, it happens everywhere. I don't have a problem with it. Only the replacement should be comparable in licence. Which this one isn't.

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