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Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

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Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#101

Post by nickelpro »

Ha, I'm interning with their chip design team right now. They've done 7 tapeouts but there's a lot of mistakes and other issues down in the plumbing.

I wouldn't say their program is significantly better or worse than any other, and my understanding is this focus on a "Semiconductor Degree" is just a reshuffling of courses already offered in EE and ECE degrees. Certainly there are teams far ahead of Purdue. The programs at UCSD and OSU that are pioneering the work on OpenROAD and Skywater 130 are the ones who are really ahead of the game. If I could be at any program in the US, those are where I would want to be.

That said Purdue is absolutely ahead of the average ECE program. Very few undergrad programs are completing tapeouts on a regular basis, even at schools that would otherwise have the funding to accomplish it. There are plenty of schools that think of ECE as "EE plus some CS courses" and don't even teach much HDL, much less how to layout a standard cell or do timing analysis.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#102

Post by nsonha »

goodpoint wrote: post #59
Datenstrom wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web development usually involves very little CS it is much closer to Software Engineering. Computer Science about solving problems with math, science, and computation theory and just happens to use computers as tools. Software Engineering is about building complete and useful programs.

> Web development ... is much closer to Software Engineering Is what?!

There are still peole like this who think Software Engineering is Computer Sience

it's barely even engineering

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#103

Post by irrational »

nurspouse wrote: post #72
jjoonathan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: nerd trap. Low wages, horrendous deadlines (tapeout), hard work. Perhaps this has changed, given that we're in a semiconductor boom cycle now, but I have my doubts. When SMIC started trying to poach TSMC talent, the response was not to make pay competitive (or even half decent), let alone in line with the massive geopolitically-relevant value being created. No, the response was a mask-off legislative crackdo…

I worked at Intel, and with process/fab people for a number of years. Everything you're seeing in the comments is true. Compensation is not that bad. Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. But if you're a fab person, you'll work long hours, be on call often (and you will get woken up often), and eventually will own a tool that you'll be responsible for, even when not on call. Lots of abusive and pa…

> Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does.

For some reason, I assumed that in order to be a chip designer you had to be as good at programming as a developer. Then I became friends with two intel chip designers/engineers and was surprised that neither knew much of anything about programming, despite both having multiple PhDs in their fields. That's when I began realizing that engineering and programming are 2 entirely different fields that have little overlap.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#104

Post by btkramer9 »

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #19
badRNG wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently work in embedded software which involves a lot of overlapping interaction with EE and hardware design folks. The consensus is that the hardest, most fascinating field is the one you currently have the least exposure to. The easiest, least exciting field is the one you have a degree in. In CS, you may have spent thousands or tens of thousands of hours across many years learning and growing, and still being…

Just curious, for a software engineer that only works with managed languages such as Java and Python, what kind of embedded job is easy to squeeze into? Thanks~~

If you (or anyone else) are interested in getting into embedded email me at my username @ gmail. We're currently looking for a couple. Coming from Java/Python is a plus

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#105

Post by roblabla »

CodeSgt wrote: post #93
badRNG wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have experience with software, learning embedded concepts isn't a huge leap. At least in my area, aerospace, defense, and automotive tend to be the biggest, easiest employers to get started with. They will hire basically anyone with a solid grasp of C, OSes, and basic computer architecture (at an undergrad level.) I find embedded really rewarding. A 20 year old embedded-C code base generally follows the same d…

Know of any companies/industries that have started switching to Rust for embedded?

It's still too early for Rust in the embedded space. A lot of that space has various certification requirements that Rust doesn't meet yet, and the rest of the space tends to follow too and is very conservative.

Ferrous Systems is making some good progress to make certification of Rust happen, through ferrocene[0] and other initiatives, but it will take time.

The only company I know using Rust in a sort-of embedded way is SoloKeys[1], using Rust to write the firmware of a hardware authentication token (similar to a yubikey).

[0]: https://ferrous-systems.com/ferrocene/

[1]: https://solokeys.com/

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#106

Post by steveklabnik »

CodeSgt wrote: post #93
badRNG wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have experience with software, learning embedded concepts isn't a huge leap. At least in my area, aerospace, defense, and automotive tend to be the biggest, easiest employers to get started with. They will hire basically anyone with a solid grasp of C, OSes, and basic computer architecture (at an undergrad level.) I find embedded really rewarding. A 20 year old embedded-C code base generally follows the same d…

Know of any companies/industries that have started switching to Rust for embedded?

Oxide Computer, my employer, is using Rust for firmware and other embedded cases.

Several automotive companies have been hiring for Rust, though what exactly they’re using it for isn’t as well known publicly yet.

There have been a few aerospace projects. And at least one train project, IIRC?

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#108

Post by Kerrick »

Bilal_io wrote: post #51
Kerrick wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some do. I just started going back to school and I’m working on a B.S. In Software Development at Western Governors University. They’re accredited and online only. They also offer a B.S. in Computer Science.

I heard about WGU and was a bit skeptical, not knowing how it's viewed by other universities if I wanted to continue my master's program elsewhere. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. I assume you've done your research before you joined, what made you decide to go for it? what's your current experience there? And do you know other people that took their degree from WGU and joined another university for th…

The biggest three factors that made me decide to go for it were:

- Even in my first attempt at college, I was never too concerned with the name/reputation of the school. My first go around I picked a state school that gave me a full ride, rather than going for the more prestigious options. So once I checked that the accreditation of WGU was indeed legit, that was good enough for me.

- Their admissions are based on your professional history, since they're set up to cater to working professionals, not high school graduates. (Heck, their mascot is the "night owl.") That means it didn't matter to them that my first attempt at college left me with a... bit of a "stained" transcript. That stopped me from getting into other online options, but my professional history spoke for me at WGU.

- I'm a huge fan of their competency-based education model. It isn't for everyone since the classes are self-paced and asynchronous, but it matches my personal abilities to self teach and to "binge" content. Plus, as soon as you enroll in a course you can take a pre-assessment that will unlock the final if you do well. For some of the courses I've spent over a decade in the workforce learning the content, so I was able to do the pre-assessment and then the final in a single day.

My current experience at WGU is short, but good. My term started June 1. I rocketed through a few of the classes that had test-based and code-based finals in the first week. Now I'm realizing just how out of practice I am with writing, because I'm in a pair of classes that have writing-based finals and I'm struggling more.

I don't personally know people that took their degree from WGU to another university for a Masters, but WGU maintains a list [0] of universities which have accepted WGU undergraduates into their graduate and/or doctoral programs.

[0] https://www.wgu.edu/alumni/career-support/education-and-prof...

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#110

Post by greggman3 »

irrational wrote: post #103
nurspouse wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Intel, and with process/fab people for a number of years. Everything you're seeing in the comments is true. Compensation is not that bad. Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. But if you're a fab person, you'll work long hours, be on call often (and you will get woken up often), and eventually will own a tool that you'll be responsible for, even when not on call. Lots of abusive and pa…

> Clearly, it'll not pay SW salaries - no engineering does. For some reason, I assumed that in order to be a chip designer you had to be as good at programming as a developer. Then I became friends with two intel chip designers/engineers and was surprised that neither knew much of anything about programming, despite both having multiple PhDs in their fields. That's when I began realizing that engineering and programm…

Not the same thing but ... In my experience, most browser developers (who write C++) don't know web development. In fact most of them disdane it, or at least that's how it feels. I find it kind of sad though I also understand it as I had the same attitude for the first 2~3 of years.
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