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Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

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Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#381

Post by dragonwriter »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #374
beezle wrote: post #297

I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught cultural value of 'don't be wasteful'. So unlike so many people today, I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two if I actually think 5 minutes ahead. That applies whether gas is $1 or $5 per gallon. I also try to make…

I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap. But I got so sick of living out in the middle of nowhere and having to drive all the time (as a kid, with my parents), that I spend more on housing in urban areas where I can walk to multiple stores. Throwing things away is so difficult these days that I try to make purchases that avoid it. But like...we still have my 5 year olds car seat in our garage be…

> I was a kid during the 80s when gas was (comparatively) cheap.

The 1980s are funny, because, the early 1980s were one of the periods of highest sustained gas prices in history, while the late 1980s and 1990s are the lowest ever.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#382

Post by notahacker »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #24
doix wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It makes you penny wise and pound foolish while always having to look over your shoulder monetarily speaking. Could you explain what you mean? I grew up pretty poor, single income PhD student/post-doc salary family with two kids. Eventually my father got a proper position at a university, but until then we were pretty poor. My parents used to sleep on the floor, we had almost no furniture(I remember playing footbal…

>Could you explain what you mean? Sure. I realize I waste a lot of time in supermarkets, shops or online stores, browsing/walking around and comparing prices just to penny pinch on low value things, when the savings I would make would have no meaningful impact on my yearly net worth, but the time and mental energy wasted browsing/walking around comparing prices could have better return on investment if used on other…

> I realize I waste a lot of time in supermarkets, shops or online stores, browsing/walking around and comparing prices just to penny pinch on low value things, when the savings I would make would have no meaningful impact on my yearly net worth, but the time and mental energy wasted browsing/walking around comparing prices could have better return on investment if used on other things like learning a new skill, reading a book, etc.

That's a feeling I know well. It's even more irrational when it's a habit inherited from parents who weren't particularly poor, so you grow up living in quite a nice house that a lot of time and money has been spent extending, but a 50p ice cream is considered decadent. And after you've made a whole bunch of career choices not optimising for income, saved loads without investing it well, you still find yourself avoiding buying icecreams or coffees when out unless you've got company and comparing cheese prices per kg in a cheap supermarket, not because it's necessary or because you aren't aware that negotiating the price of your next house will save you more than three lifetimes of cheese price comparisons, but simply because doing anything else feels like being ripped off.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#383

Post by fleddr »

A "food shock" variation...

My late grandmother, whom lived to the respectable age of 99 years, experienced the Dutch hunger winter. A period of famine during WW2.

For the rest of her lengthy life she could not tolerate any type of food waste. As an example, she'd buy a cabbage and then eat cabbage the entire week, even as it increasingly goes bad.

She had zero interest in food quality or nutritional value, just food in itself. Behavior learned during the famine where you don't have the luxury to discriminate. As an example, she once babysat me and my brother and made an abundance of snacks. Just way too much. Quite soon we were full, but the single word "finish..." and her stare told us all we needed to know. We finished, with stomach cramps. Out of respect.

Also, she had 9 children and survived 7 (genetic blood disease). She survived two husbands. In her extended family and friends, she survived...everybody.

We have a single photo of her childhood, where she stands in front of her house. Which was...made from clay and reed. An astonishing reminder of how even in today's developed nations, wealth for common people is brand new. Despite plenty of opportunities in her lifetime, she rejected material wealth outside some basics. Zero material desires.

Despite all this, not once in her life have I seen her sad or complain or moan. If us grandchildren did something bad or stupid, she didn't give a shit. You're still alive, in health...so what's the problem? Carry on.

She didn't eat very healthy, smoke a pack a day and didn't exercise. And still she made a daily trip on her bicycle to get her own groceries. Or make two trips in a row if needed. Up to the age of 98.

The collapse was short and sudden. After a hospital stay she was returned home to die. As she got carried out of the ambulance she saw my dad's work: her front-garden completely replanted with hundreds of blooming flowers, a sight to behold.

"That looks nice"

She was never very generous with compliments. And those were her last words. I'd call her Iron Lady, but it's an insult really. Iron is too soft to describe her.

She lives on as my compass for life. When I worry, see darkness in the world, contemplate about world events and threats, I think of her.

I'm alive, and I'm eating. I'm fine. Her scars are my lesson, and it's liberating.

She lived in an occupied country, ate grass and flowers, whilst nearly freezing to death. She encountered enough personal loss to fit several lifetimes. And still lived a full life and remained positive throughout.

So if at one point I have to cancel my Netflix, yeah...I think I'm going to be fine.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#384

Post by Damogran6 »

mcguire wrote: post #254
yunwal wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stocks are liquid enough that you can sell enough to pay your credit card off before getting hit with interest. There's no reason to have 6 months worth of expenses in cash just sitting around unless you strongly suspect a crash.

The S&P 500 is down 21% since the beginning of the year.

And will be back up in less than 18 months.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#385

Post by Nition »

themacguffinman wrote: post #355
paulywog wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the automotive industry and the biggest fan of EVs in general. I was even home-building an EV before I moved to the city. I think we still have a lot to figure out with our charging infrastructure, in cities where often it's hard just to park. I want an EV badly, but it'd be a constant struggle to keep it charged. There's also an issue with car companies generally not making the cars I want anymore, though I u…

EVs have really large batteries nowadays which should make home charging feasible for most. The Tesla Model 3 has an EPA estimated mileage of 358 while the Nissan Leaf has estimated 149. If you mostly travel within city limits, I'd be surprised if you could deplete your whole battery before you get home at the end of the day.

Indeed almost all EV charging happens at home, but the parent comment is talking about city living where people may not have access to charging at home.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#386

Post by hinkley »

fleddr wrote: post #383

A "food shock" variation... My late grandmother, whom lived to the respectable age of 99 years, experienced the Dutch hunger winter. A period of famine during WW2. For the rest of her lengthy life she could not tolerate any type of food waste. As an example, she'd buy a cabbage and then eat cabbage the entire week, even as it increasingly goes bad. She had zero interest in food quality or nutritional value, just food…

My great grandmother was 9 at the end of the Great Depression. Not that she talked about it, but I did an assignment for an anthropology class that was basically, "bother some old people about one of these Bad Times."

She actually was a good cook, a lot of her dishes rode the line between simple and fancy. She had either the oldest fancy stove or the fanciest old stove I'd ever seen, and she treated every glass jar she met as a reusable container (to this day the majority of glass jars on store shelves are the same dimensions and threading as a Ball Mason Jar lid), had odd collections of belongings and many of her wide, wide variety of plants seemed to have come from an extensive network of barter and gift economy.

We spent one trip to her house clearing her entire pantry of expired food, because my mom found one can, asked some questions and did not like any of her answers. Some of it was bad. Rob you and leave your body in a ditch bad.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#387

Post by darkerside »

beezle wrote: post #297

I was a kid during both oil shocks of the 1970s. That has absolutely nothing to do with my driving. What does, and not just for driving, is the family taught cultural value of 'don't be wasteful'. So unlike so many people today, I don't make 12 trips a day to stores/friends/whatever when I can just make one or two if I actually think 5 minutes ahead. That applies whether gas is $1 or $5 per gallon. I also try to make…

Don't you think your family cultural value may have been amplified by the economic environment?

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#388

Post by astrange »

pishpash wrote: post #351
astrange wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Muni bond and treasury ETFs are not down 21%, and neither is my emergency fund investment account.

Broad munis and intermediate treasuries are both down 10% YTD, and so are TIPS (though at least those have had inflation adjustments). You might want to check your "emergency fund investment account" lol...

It’s on target still. Less margin than usual, but the gains from the last 10 years have made up for that.

Betterment recommends 30% margin: https://www.betterment.com/resources/funding-a-safety-net-ca...

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#389

Post by heartbeats »

quantified wrote: post #5

Yeah, we don't just burn gas driving everywhere. "Scar consumption" as a phrase assumes that consumption in the American style is a healthy activity to begin with, and this outcome is damaging or ugly. "Permanently reduce consumption" would be more worthy of an academic setting, that title is clickbaity. Perhaps some will overdo avoidance of something because of fear of expense. Better than masses overdoing from buil…

> "Scar consumption" as a phrase assumes that consumption in the American style is a healthy activity to begin with, and this outcome is damaging or ugly.

Well, not really. The basic problem is that production has to equal consumption. And so there are three possibilities:

1. People consume all of their income 2. People work less 3. People work, but get paid less

In a fair economy, the third point won't happen. In a country that wants an internationally competitive economy, the second point can't happen. And so people have to consume 100% in order to work 100%; this choice maximizes tax revenue.

Re: Price shocks in formative years scar consumption for life

#390

Post by fleddr »

hinkley wrote: post #386
fleddr wrote: post #383

A "food shock" variation... My late grandmother, whom lived to the respectable age of 99 years, experienced the Dutch hunger winter. A period of famine during WW2. For the rest of her lengthy life she could not tolerate any type of food waste. As an example, she'd buy a cabbage and then eat cabbage the entire week, even as it increasingly goes bad. She had zero interest in food quality or nutritional value, just food…

My great grandmother was 9 at the end of the Great Depression. Not that she talked about it, but I did an assignment for an anthropology class that was basically, "bother some old people about one of these Bad Times." She actually was a good cook, a lot of her dishes rode the line between simple and fancy. She had either the oldest fancy stove or the fanciest old stove I'd ever seen, and she treated every glass jar s…

I so recognize that behavior, and in our family it has carried on into the boomer generation, my parents and in-laws.

Half the food in their house is expired. They have this lifelong habit of needlessly stocking lots of food as well as opening a food package and then not finishing it for way too long.

Our parents never experienced a famine yet did experience a different culture of food logistics. Very large families (my mother has 8 siblings) so you need lots of food. Food being more seasonally available only, so stock up. Older houses having deep cold cellars to store food, whilst modern houses don't tend to have that, but they don't unlearn the behavior.

Yes, I too have found lots of food expired by years. The most shocking thing is that quite a lot of it looks exactly like it was bought including a salad with an egg on top of it. When you slice a freshly boiled egg and put it at room temperature, it turns dark in an hour. This egg is 8 years old and looks brand new.

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