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As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

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Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#271
I graduated college in 2018, and, even though I majored in Neuroscience and wanted to do computational neuroscience research, that there was just no way I could accept the working conditions + cost of grad school, PhD, and postdoc life. It seemed like a terrible deal then, even as a young student who ONLY wanted to do research. Learning software engineering and breaking into the industry was SO much easier than continuing my education, and while I don't regret it, I have to imagine the deal has only gotten worse. The only people I still know doing research are fully funded by their parents, and even then most of them have dropped out for easier jobs. Cannot imagine the brain-drain that is happening across the US right now.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#272
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the pay isn't good, the culture and work should be. In academia, that's almost never true When I think back to my thought process when I was applying for academic and research jobs after my PhD, there's one thing I remember that always keeps me from ever second guessing my decision to move to the private sector. At least in my field, so many people in academia and research had big egos and were a-holes. Some of t…

The closer I got to my PIs and their friends/enemies in various academic departments, the more I realized that university departmental politics are more stereotypically 'high school drama' than anything I actually experienced in high school! My god, professors can be so petty. Don't consult a self-perceived expert on a field on a project you're considering? Uninvited from their July 4th BBQ. Standing up for a junior…

As has been attributed to Sayre: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low."

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#273

Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…

I've posted on this before but I make twice as much, more, as an industry pro than in my work as a non-tenured academic. I've been offered tenure and turned it down, because if I took it, my family would starve. It needs to change. But imagine the displacement of those ivory-tower academic greybeards who will suddenly have to compete with actual professionals? They're still teaching HTML/CSS in my university, for exa…

Just my personal observations:

Plain HTML/CSS is still relevant today. Not everything needs to be an SPA. I also don't understand how one would write SPAs with React/Vue/whatever other framework without first having at least some understanding of HTML and CSS.

Agree with the cloud being poo-pooed.

Don't agree with barely any classes in ML. Grant money in ML has been hot, which means academic hiring in ML has been hot, and a good number of those hires are teaching classes. Basically every major CS department has a broad selection of ML courses or even ML concentrations and minors. Most smaller departments seem to have at least one or two courses to choose from.

I've never seen Python used to teach software engineering. Java is the classic language for that, even today. Although I suspect that we may have different definitions of software engineering.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the trivialization of this. The solution is not obvious. Paying more/longer requires more money. Where does that money come from? At least in my areas of science (chemistry), most of this money comes from grants, which comes from the NIH, DOE, or NSF depending on the project. Ultimately it comes from taxpayers, and portioned out by Congress. So the solution is either to get Congress to really care about this (…

I hate the helplessness of this. You have agency. You also have responsibility. You have a chemistry phd. You don't have to build your career on other people's crushed financial futures. Either find a job where you can pay people well or find a job where you don't need to manage other people's labor to stay employed. I have A LOT of dubious pet projects I could convince NSF to fund and would love to work on if I had…

No post body was provided.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#275
Design your letter in the most aseptic and unfunny way possible.

Extra points if is in a foreign language to show that you are cool people. The problem to solve is less important than all this marvelous crispy sounds when is spelled

Use a lot of trendy terms and fancy words. Your project to improve the texture of the mayonaise must sound like Bruce Willis in Armageddon. The more confusing, holistic and superfood, the better.

Stress that you want really motivated candidates. The job is boring as hell so they need to came yet motivated from home. They will not grow professionally here.

Assure that the job is available only in a narrow interval of time. Much better if is in the time when everybody is posting job offers and competing for your attention. Biology shows us that fishes in a school are safer from being noticed individually.

Reject people that stopped for three years working on science. They could need to spend an entire afternoon to read and understand everything that happened in their field in the last three years. Yup, the whole nine articles. You don't want to use their previous decades of experience and university classes.

For a better measure go to the corridor and run screaming "a gap!, a curriculum gap!" in terror

Use deadlines in your profit. Assure to email your job offer two or three days after the closing time has expired.

Don't be concise, your candidates love to spend ten minutes reading about vanity issues, the history of your building and why the bricks are violet.

Ask they to write an essay about how your project was their dream since school.

Put the salary hidden in a link. Better if this leads to twenty pages of bureaucracy before.

Use several categories for your job offer to reduce the probability of a match. Use fancy names like "Ramon y Cajal" position or "Juan de la Cierva" offer to made it seem more relevant. Then put your job only in one of them. Example: We look for a biochemist for a Sara Borrel thing, requisites: having less than 30 years, visited the Tibet in the last year and be a natural blonde more than 6 feet tall. Their field of research does not matter. "Oh, you studied exactly the same thing but you look more like a `Juan de la Cierva' to me. Maybe the next year".

Your job application must be a turning point in their life. Assure to ask the lab rats to spend all the day filling a job application so complex that would made Kafka proud. A real example: Looking for somebody to work in city X. Requisites. Can't live currently in city X (that would be so easy, and yes, is a real example from a real job offer).

Assure that your selection process to hire scientists has a 70% of questions related with laws, 10% about ideology, and the rest about the real work to do.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did my last postdoc in another European country more or less 8 years ago and my salary was 1700 euros per month (after taxes). Very limited funds for traveling or going to conferences. That was barely livable, considering it is temporary money, you cannot ask for any mortgage, cannot plan any future and you are often starting to have gray hair (or a full head of gray hair).

Postdoc in Germany sees around 2400± after tax per month

Is that correct? I am a postdoc at Humboldt Universität zu Berlin and I'm at the TV-L 13 level, Stufe 3, which is ~3300 post tax.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role Where do you get these numbers from? This is not at all like that in Europe. A postdoc gets (say, in France) 30k per year, doing a calm, interesting job and paid travel to a couple of conferences per year, with almost total freedom to choose their daily schedule. This is not a high salary, but it is c…

When I was a postdoc 10 years ago in the US I brought home about $2200/month. My health insurance deductible was $5000/year. I paid $1800/month in student loans. My family had to move into my parent's basement, and every credit card was maxed, every bank account overdrawn, major food anxiety, etc.

It is astonishing how poorly academia pays the people who actually do the research; extreme financial stress is a nightmare that can really wreck your life.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an industry person who wanted to transition to academia. I just decided against it obviously. I liked all the aspects you pointed out above. The one thing that is missed is that most places are publishing sweatshops where the pay and work conditions are horrible. The “boss” or the PI has unlimited control and can destroy your career. The problems are also way out of the ordinary. I’d like to draw a parallel wit…

> I just decided against it obviously. Why is it obvious? There might be some groupthink on HN (and bias toward our career paths), but plenty of people go into academia. > pay and work conditions are horrible It's not like bosses and businesses in the private sector are Nirvana. You can see plenty of stories about them on HN.

Private sector pay is much better and working conditions are also on average much better. You have professional management and HR functions and one manager can’t destroy your career. More importantly the exit options are better. The relative power imbalances lead to people being treated differently.
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