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Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

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Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#51
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely sprinting away with anything canonical. SUSE/openSUSE/Micro RHEL/Fedora/CoreOS nothing else...no more canonical, too many disappointments and trickery into pay massive at the end of the day.

What is Micro RHEL?

Guess comment is (SUSE/openSUSE/Micro) (RHEL/Fedora/CoreOS).

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#52

I would also chip in along the same lines as the other comments here and strongly advise against using Ubuntu Core in any application. It's a tempting idea when you first look at it, but in practice it is seriously difficult to build an application with, comes with a lot of constraints, and requires you forking over repeated large sums of money to Canonical with no way out. We had a much better experience with https:…

I've never used anything in the product space, but I've read through some of the docs because IoT deployment interests me in the context of most network devices having terrible deployment and update strategies.

My favorite sales pitch was always Mender (https://mender.io) because it can be as simple as .img files and slice based booting. Unfortunately they changed their pricing a couple years ago and went from a hobbyist friendly pricing structure where you could scale down to $120 / year to charging for scale and features where the minimum cost to use delta updates is $3k per year. If you want something like mutual TLS authentication it's "call us" pricing.

When I looked at Balena I thought the whole architecture looked like a mess of complexity and containers when a simple .img would suffice for most use cases (IMO). It's also too expensive to get into without having a well understood target market for whatever IoT product you're planning to build. IE: No hobbyists or enthusiasts that just want to learn without having something sellable planned out.

IMHO all of the IoT deployment solutions charging tons of money for features and scale are a good example of where platforms like Cloudflare could reshape the industry. I think by going "all in" on Cloudflare Pages/Functions/Workers, etc. someone could build a "Cloudflare Native" platform that can afford to dominate the unserved (low-end) portion of those markets, but with the ability to scale up to accommodate the large deployments these companies are trying to attract as customers.

I would kill for firewalls and switches that use a slice based, watchdog monitored deployment system like Mender has, but with pricing that's closer to the reality of the small business world.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#53

I highly discourage anyone to use Ubuntu Core as part of their solution. It is a secure environment, yes, but it is a nightmare to configure (snaps) and for everything, expect for the most basic stuff, you will need what is called a "brand store", which costs about $20k/year, regardless if you have 1 or 100 devices. (We could not even make one snap talk to another snap, checking another snap status etc). We had comme…

> I highly discourage anyone to use Ubuntu Core as part of their solution. Yup. The guys at Nitrokey did a nice write-up about this last year.[1] (TL;DR in the end, they chose Debian instead) [1] https://www.nitrokey.com/news/2021/nextbox-why-we-decided-an...

I'm surprised they ended up going with a non-immutable distro. They say their Debian-derived system is as robust as Ubuntu Core, but seemingly immediately contradict this by saying they're using apt to manage updates.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#54

ubuntu desktop is free for all. canonical needs to go public and do IPO. ubuntu core is one approach to make some money out of the (free) ubuntu brand. Personally I don't use Ubuntu Core, but I understand why it is there.

> canonical needs to go public and do IPO.

why?

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is really ridiculous. I'm sure some companies out there will pay it without blinking, but how are the little people supposed to evaluate things, heck a former boss at a Fortune 500 I know for a fact will say no thank you, and move on. I would just use DEB packages and setup a package repository myself, what does snap bring that regular debian packaging does not?

> what does snap bring that regular debian packaging does not Snap is like using a python virtualenv, while apt is like using global pip. We all know which one of these usually results in a broken installation. Apt debs more often than not rely on some specific version of a third party package which becomes a headache when there's another package that needs a different version of it. Snap in theory solves that, makin…

As an alternative just package everything up in an AppImage and use a AppRun shim script.. Then just deploy the AppImage to whatever. The LXD Snap bundles quite a few things, there's no reason you couldn't do the same with AppImage.

https://xon.sh/appimage.html#building-your-own-xonsh-appimag...

https://github.com/niess/python-appimage

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#56

I highly discourage anyone to use Ubuntu Core as part of their solution. It is a secure environment, yes, but it is a nightmare to configure (snaps) and for everything, expect for the most basic stuff, you will need what is called a "brand store", which costs about $20k/year, regardless if you have 1 or 100 devices. (We could not even make one snap talk to another snap, checking another snap status etc). We had comme…

If you've only got one device then it probably doesn't make sense. But if you have a number of devices, you probably have a business and need to make sure that you can reliably and securely update them remotely. How many developer/ops hours do you think that would take? 20k doesn't buy you much in dev hours these days.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#57
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been a huge fanboy since Warthog, but as of 20.04 I've sought refuge elsewhere. Turns out, Ubuntu isn't nearly as user friendly as it was back then, in fact, it's one of the least user friendly distros these days! Everybody progressed and you deserve t check it out yourself!

What’s your new distro of choice?

Linux Mint for everyday use. It made my 10 year old hot running laptop into a cold mean machine.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#58
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been a huge fanboy since Warthog, but as of 20.04 I've sought refuge elsewhere. Turns out, Ubuntu isn't nearly as user friendly as it was back then, in fact, it's one of the least user friendly distros these days! Everybody progressed and you deserve t check it out yourself!

What’s your new distro of choice?

Anything that has a sane package system (apt, etc), and is able to install LXDE and use it out of the box.

Then, put dwm/[your fav. wm] on top of it, with some autoservices for bluetooth, mtp and stuff.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#59

I would also chip in along the same lines as the other comments here and strongly advise against using Ubuntu Core in any application. It's a tempting idea when you first look at it, but in practice it is seriously difficult to build an application with, comes with a lot of constraints, and requires you forking over repeated large sums of money to Canonical with no way out. We had a much better experience with https:…

I've never used anything in the product space, but I've read through some of the docs because IoT deployment interests me in the context of most network devices having terrible deployment and update strategies. My favorite sales pitch was always Mender ( https://mender.io ) because it can be as simple as .img files and slice based booting. Unfortunately they changed their pricing a couple years ago and went from a ho…

First 10 devices on balena are free, its used by many thousands of hobbyists.

For example balenaSound is very popular, for multi-room audio with rapsberry pi's https://sound.balenalabs.io/

There is also balenaHub, which hosts many community projects and introduces the concept of "open fleets", bring your device and join the fleet, instead of managing it yourself https://hub.balena.io/fleets

Disclosure: I am an engineer at balena.

Re: Ubuntu Core 22 is now available – optimised for IoT and embedded devices

#60
post #17

Installation Step 1: An Ubuntu SSO account is required to create the first user on an Ubuntu Core installation. Yeah... no.

Is Ubuntu Core closed source? If not, can't someone fork it and remove this requirement?

Ubuntu Core seems to be Snap As A Service. Snap is mostly open source (everything except the actual store backend because "it would be complicated" to do that).

If you fork it and remove the connection to Ubuntu's cloud ecosystem, you'd probably be end with a barebones Ubuntu Server install. When all you need is Ubuntu Server with Livepatch, you're probably better off using that.

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