Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#171

Post by anon291 » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:28 PM UTC

api wrote: post #38

mc32 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan does not shame sex -they have compensated "dating", soaplands, love hotels, etc..., And maybe that is part of the problem. Maybe it's not. It's possible that if they made sex more taboo then, at least teenagers would seek it out more as a way to break the rules. On the other hand they as a culture tend to follow rules more than in the "west". So maybe it would be a wash. Some cultures practice "Bundling" to get…

There's been a decline in youth sexuality in the USA at the same time as our sexual liberalization, especially in the last 10-15 years. I wonder if taboos are actually part of the courtship process with humans. Part of the allure might be doing something forbidden. Humans are weird.

Or maybe everyone's grossed out by the kinds of sex normalized today.

My wife knows many women who have had terrible experiences on dates with boys, including pre-marital sexual activity, and have sworn off on marriage as well. Many have anecdotes of young men wanting to recreate pornographic scenes of incredible debauchery with them. For example, many have had men want to choke them. Perhaps large portions of people are disgusted by the kinds of sexual acts now considered 'normal' and find it difficult to ascertain what kind of things any potential date is into. Others she knows have been exposed to pornography, don't like what they see, and have determined they are asexual. Of course, this all disappears the moment they meet a man who actually loves them, and it turns out they are not asexual, they're just not into what's commonly portrayed as normal.

At the end of the day, only a slim minority of people were interested in 'sexual liberation'. Most people thought sex was good enough before, as evidenced by the copious amount of premarital sex, children, and higher reported sexual happiness.

My wife and I got married very young, so when I hear about all these things, we're both relatively shocked.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#172

Post by GauntletWizard » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #153

dymk wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JP governments are exploring drastic options to incentivize people settling down and having kids. Tokyo is considering 100k JPY per year per kid. I’d say that looks like the government version of “freaking out”. Approx ~10k~ 1k USD per year is ~probably~ deffo not going to be enough, though.

>100k JPY per year per kid >Approx 10k USD per year 100k JPY is 742 dollars. Which of the two numbers did you fuddle?

The first; It's 100k/Mo/kid, though other numbers have been floated[1] and the current subsidy is already 40kJPY for low-income families[2], where "low-income" is below the average[3].

[1] https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20220420/p2a/00m/0na/00... [2] https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/11/11/national/politi... [3] https://wagaya-japan.com/en/journal_detail.php?id=5866

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#173

Post by waffleiron » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #140

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #68

Controversial opinion: The concept of a 'date' is an american romantic film import for a lot of other cultures. If I go back 10 years in my home country any woman would shut down your conversation if you asked her on a _one-on-one_ 'date', the implication alone would question her 'virtue'/intentions. One-on-one interaction would naturally occur as the casual hanging out with shared groups of friends or parties. I hon…

We don't have to go by the English translation of what the question was. We can see it in their demographic statistics that they are delaying marriage and are having fewer children. So, your argument becomes academic.

> "We can see it in their demographic statistics that they are delaying marriage and are having fewer children. "

This doesn't always mean less dating though, people could date a lot but be less willing to commit.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#174

Post by giantg2 » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:29 PM UTC

nonameiguess wrote: post #86

bpodgursky wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are fairly different arguments. Japan's working hours are traditionally brutal - 12 hours a day, 6-7 days a week. Plus mandatory "happy" hours. It's often a financially comfortable life; but there's 0 flexibility to find an employer that allows a 9-5 workday, even if you're willing to take a pay cut. Elon is saying that high-paid professionals in the US have fewer children than the lower-middle class, which is…

That seems to be missing that many of those highly-paid professionals were not highly paid in their peak fertile years. Engineers maybe, but doctors and lawyers tend to spend many years in school and then interning. If you start having kids at 30, you'll usually end up with fewer total kids than if you had started at 20. The most highly paid engineers are likely those willing and able to relocate frequently, too, whi…

Even if starting at 30, that doesn't explain it being < 2. There are medical interventions on both sides of the equation (birth controls and fertility treatments). Preferences are the main drivers in my opinion.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#175

Post by Dracophoenix » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

xyzzyz wrote: post #110

lurquer wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who wants to date, marry, or have kids if you can barely live your life? Apparently most of humanity for most of recorded history. 20-something males (in Japan and, to an increasing degree in the US) are not foregoing dating and marriage due to ‘working conditions.’ The reasons are, regrettably, more complex. Indeed, in the current state we’re in, giving young men more leisure time and money would undoubtedly resul…

^ This guy gets it. The widespread idea that too little material wealth, and lousy working condition is what prevents family formation and procreation is one of those things that the people who inherit the earth from us (should there still be any) will be laughing in a few hundred years, just like we find it unfathomable that our ancestors honestly believed in witches and the reality of curses and magic spells.

Consider that it's more expensive to have children have children as well. It's not so much too little material wealth as it is too little wealth to sustain the "normal" childhood. Not so long ago, kids existed as cheap labor and a retirement account. One didn't need to treat them like human beings much less provide literacy or schooling to them. Whatever functional uses they had before have been replaced by machines and and markets. Today, unless one is passing down the family company, having a kid serves no functional purpose except as a "fun" activity or cultural performance. Anyone who is having children today is choosing to invest in/burden themselves with a more expensive responsibility than previous generations had.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#176

Post by pizza234 » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:30 PM UTC

bradlys wrote: post #143

willcipriano wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mens value in the dating marketplace goes up over time. If you are relatively sane, sober and employed around 28, mother nature helps you out with her biological alarm clock. Keep your head up, it's going to get easier from here on out.

As someone who did get older and went through this - it does not get better. Your hair doesn’t suddenly get thicker. The pounds don’t suddenly become easier to keep off. Your skin doesn’t tighten. Your complexion doesn’t smoothen out. It gets worse. This is just copium we give to men to make them think it gets better. The stats show that it doesn’t get better . If you’re single now and have never been on a date - the…

> Your hair doesn’t suddenly get thicker. The pounds don’t suddenly become easier to keep off. Your skin doesn’t tighten. Your complexion doesn’t smoothen out.

If the only change that occurs to a person until the more advanced age, is only physical decline, then they're certainly "less valuable" than their younger counterpart.

However, there are people (I hope most) that actually do have many other (inner) qualities that grow with them, and compensante and exceed the physical decline, thus, their "value" is higher than their younger counterpart.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#177

Post by sbf501 » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

doliveira wrote: post #158

sbf501 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You get the award for most subtle attempt at rephrasing the "welfare queen" myth I've heard in a few years.

I mean, it wasn't that subtle, but yeah, subtle enough just for distraction. I don't know how the situation is in the USA, but in Brazil we have the myth of mothers having 10 children just to get more money for each child.

Similar. It is very common to hear the right side of US politics claim poor minority women have multiple children just to get "free stuff" from the government, yet the same folks also want to make abortion illegal. Some people even claim the government will pay for your child if you are completely poor. The lies are astonishing, but the racism is necessary for their populist political message to work.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#178

Post by etrevino » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

aquadoggy wrote: post #115

lolinder wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happily married with a great sex life, and neither of us had any sexual relationships before our marriage. I know that sounds quaint and antiquated on this forum, but some traditions really do exist for a reason. :-) Point being: It's not a foregone conclusion that your future wife is having sex right now. There are still people out there who wait.

Yes, I am completely onboard with this tradition. I think of it as the 'tape' analogy. If you stick tape many times, each subsequent stick is less firm. Same with relationships. You bring increasing amounts of baggage, all of your "firsts" have already been done, and you have a loose bond to your partner.

Think about this differently: as you have more relationships you learn what you can tolerate and what you can't. The less experienced you are, often the more patient you are with red flags. I'm sorry if not owning all of a person's firsts makes you feel inferior, but that has to do with your self esteem, which is probably what undermines you and makes you insecure. She can love you more than she's loved anyone ever, even if she's loved someone before.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#179

Post by api » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:32 PM UTC

anon291 wrote: post #171

api wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been a decline in youth sexuality in the USA at the same time as our sexual liberalization, especially in the last 10-15 years. I wonder if taboos are actually part of the courtship process with humans. Part of the allure might be doing something forbidden. Humans are weird.

Or maybe everyone's grossed out by the kinds of sex normalized today. My wife knows many women who have had terrible experiences on dates with boys, including pre-marital sexual activity, and have sworn off on marriage as well. Many have anecdotes of young men wanting to recreate pornographic scenes of incredible debauchery with them. For example, many have had men want to choke them. Perhaps large portions of people…

Porn is nothing like actual sex. Even fetish stuff depicted in porn is usually nothing like actual fetish stuff in actual sex (among people into that). I do worry about easy access to porn and young people growing up thinking it even slightly represents reality.

Re: Many single Japanese people in their 20s have never been on a date – survey

#180

Post by zozbot234 » Wed, Jun 15, 2022, 3:33 PM UTC

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #68

Controversial opinion: The concept of a 'date' is an american romantic film import for a lot of other cultures. If I go back 10 years in my home country any woman would shut down your conversation if you asked her on a _one-on-one_ 'date', the implication alone would question her 'virtue'/intentions. One-on-one interaction would naturally occur as the casual hanging out with shared groups of friends or parties. I hon…

> One-on-one interaction would naturally occur as the casual hanging out with shared groups of friends or parties.

Modern America, by and large, does not have the shared spaces and sense of community where these interactions could occur. As Robert Putnam said it, we're literally 'Bowling Alone'. "Dates" are a band-aid, their only positive is they avoid the alternative of universal inceldom.