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Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

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Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#21

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

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weird conclusion

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#23

James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way. Has theoretical physics advanced enough now that such pen and paper discoveries are all but over, and the only way to continue making progress is to dedicate an ever larger share of the global economy's productive capacity to building larger and more expensive experiments? Wha…

> James Clerk Maxwell united electricity and magnetism with a pen and paper. Einstein discovered special and general relativity in the same way.

They had tabletop experiments (and telescope observations) that gave them the clues they needed

A lot of XX century physics was done in tabletop conditions (in the 19xx) with danger to the experimentalists. Also climbing mountains and capturing cosmic rays with photographic film

We might still have something hidden but most of the low-hanging fruit was discovered already.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#24
post #6

I only have an amateur interest in physics, so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I often think about what if we've reached as far as we can go within the current framework of physics? This is more meta-science than actual science, but what if we made some decisions very early in the development of physics and mathematics and we need to revisit those?

Perhaps one such decision is that matter is fundamental. There are increasingly substantial cases being made that this is now holding us back in physics, and that we need to consider that consciousness is fundamental, and matter is only a consequence of it. See, for example Hoffman's The Case Against Reality.

What does fundamental mean in this case?

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#25
post #6

I only have an amateur interest in physics, so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I often think about what if we've reached as far as we can go within the current framework of physics? This is more meta-science than actual science, but what if we made some decisions very early in the development of physics and mathematics and we need to revisit those?

I think this is correct. My sense is that the assumption of _individuation_ is at the core of logic, which then infects all rational thinking. (We add the predicates to "things", and then forget that we added them!)

If there are no individual things, as quantum field theory seems to suggest, what are numbers counting?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNVQfWC_evg

http://www.katabane.com/mt/ontology.html

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#26
post #6

I only have an amateur interest in physics, so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb, but I often think about what if we've reached as far as we can go within the current framework of physics? This is more meta-science than actual science, but what if we made some decisions very early in the development of physics and mathematics and we need to revisit those?

If the pattern Kuhn shows in The Structure of a Scientific Revolution holds, one might presume at some time a crisis will emerge which will influence the development of higher resolution tools and techniques and with them more evidence. The "nightmare" seems like exactly what is outlined as a predictable error in the model - it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#27
At least they are finding nothing and confirming they are finding nothing. Less scrupulous operators might be always finding something even if its not there. So that's a sign of good science.

Maybe there's something they haven't found because there's so much data? Mix things up and look again? Change assumptions?

Or as someone I know likes to say to various smaller humans: have you looked around the couch? Really? Are you sure? Have you had a good look? this is how the tv remote usually subsequently reappears as there is a difference between just looking and having a good look.

The best science also happens when you've looked, not found it but now know where not to look. Even better science happens when you know exactly why it shouldn't have been there at all. Surprising science happens when you find the errors in your assumptions and discover it can sometimes be where it previously was not expected to be.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#29

Why would this be a nightmare, isn't this good? They know they're going down the wrong path and can probably correct?

True but you’d hate to be the physicist that spent their career going down the wrong path only to see tomorrows physicists discover the big breakthroughs and the realization that your contribution will be sent to the dustbin of history.

Re: Ten years after the Higgs, physicists face the nightmare of finding nothing else

#30

Oh jesus christ, the constant whining! This is science. This is how it works. Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research.

> Maybe there's nothing else to discover, maybe it will take us 100 years, we don't know, that's why it's called research.

At what price?

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