Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#571

Post by wwarner » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

its_ethan wrote: post #477

xtracto wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of people in the world who would think that anything over $500/month is way more than enough for one person. Should your compensation be reduced to that amount? Disclaimer: I live in a 3rd world country and my salary is 1/3 of what the standard US salary is. YES, I do believe that everybody's compensation (including mine) who are in the top 10% of the population should be decreased/limited. Provide…

Just curious, if 10% of people holding 70% of wealth is unreasonable, how do you reconcile 1% of Spotify artists getting 90% of all "streams"? Basically, you're saying that the current distribution is crazy/unsustainable (and maybe it is) but the distribution is actually not totally out of whack with the 80/20 rule (or Pareto principle). Just wondering where your confidence comes from that a functioning society doesn…

Actually, it's not simply the proportion, but the fact that over time the proportion of wealth held by the richest has been growing really fast. So, to use your analogy, I agree that a small number artists commanding the lion's share of attention can be fair, but if over time, an ever smaller number commanded an ever greater share, very soon every one would be listening to one artist and one song, and fair or not I don't think that would be good for Spotify, audiences, artists or anyone else.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#572

Post by Johnny555 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

emptysongglass wrote: post #553

anotherfounder wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was fair taxation on billionaires, and there was a wage growth where all the productivity gains didn't only stay at the top, then I think folks would be less incensed at billionaires.

You don't even need to discuss billionaires though to get some very bad effects. Take Denmark for example that taxes software engineers 50 percent of their salary (it's not unique to SWEs it's just because nearly all SWEs will make enough to fall into this bracket). I'm thoroughly examining other lower tax bracket countries to move to because why do I want to pay half of my salary until I am enfeebled and the state l…

Take Denmark for example that taxes software engineers 50 percent of their salary (it's not unique to SWEs it's just because nearly all SWEs will make enough to fall into this bracket). I'm thoroughly examining other lower tax bracket countries to move to because why do I want to pay half of my salary until I am enfeebled and the state lets me enjoy my enfeeblement?

Denmark consistently ranks in the top 5 of countries with the best quality of life. A year of parental leave, great social welfare, universal healthcare and retirement benefits, etc.

Including federal/state/local taxes, healthcare premiums, retirement contributions, disability insurance, etc, I pay close to 50% of my salary in the USA

And I'd still worry about how I'll pay the bills if I lost my job.

why do I want to pay half of my salary until I am enfeebled and the state lets me enjoy my enfeeblement?

Because that's how the state pays for the enfeebled today? Are you really suggesting you want to leave Denmark to go somewhere with lower tax rates, then when you need social healthcare, you'll move back to Denmark and take advantage of the healthcare system that you didn't pay for?

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#573

Post by oblio » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #566

munificent wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens when USA taxes billionaires out of existence? This is a really good question. I believe the answer is that the USA will be better able to outcompete those countries that do have them. History has shown time and again that massive inequality is a huge barrier to maximizing the productivity of all of a society's members. It leads to cynism and corruption and breaks down cooperation. It forces a society t…

> believe the answer is that the USA will be better able to outcompete those countries that do have them Based on what? The US already outcompetes these other countries in business success and average citizen income. What countries don’t have billionaires that are competitive? > History has shown time and again that massive inequality is a huge barrier to maximizing the productivity of all of a society's members. His…

For every localized case, including critical ones such as the army, historically super rich and powerful people would distort the system.

There are countless examples of rich or powerful and connected people buying officer posts, for example, and meritocracies (= equality of chances) stomping all over these corruped systems.

There's little reason to believe rich people willingly or not, do not distort every market they're in. That's why they become rich, to be powerful.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#574

Post by TuringNYC » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

shinryuu wrote: post #365

throwaway894345 wrote: post #336

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Also, billionaires' wealth isn't parked in a vault, right? It's invested in companies, so it's working in the economy whereas it would otherwise go to the government. It's not obvious to me that the government is going to provide more value for the public in general than industry, but I would like for that to be the case (an easy solution for inequality that doesn't shrink our economy overall).

A lot of wealth is parked in shares of companies. I'm not sure to what extent that is actually productive...?

>> A lot of wealth is parked in shares of companies. I'm not sure to what extent that is actually productive...?

This is a YC-affiliated/run discussion forum. I think I speak for many entrepreneurs (former or current) that: investing is really, really important.

Investments from VCs (and form their wealthy LPs) makes entrepreneurship something that normal people can do (as opposed to only something rich people can afford to do.)

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#575

Post by Johnny555 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:50 PM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #562

Johnny555 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People keep pointing to Armstrong's $110M house like it's some sort of injustice. If you think billionaires should exist at all, then that's one of the least-bad injustices imaginable Ok, I'll admit it, billionaires should not exist at all, there should be a heavy wealth tax that makes it hard to become a billionaire. Will a CEO work less hard if he (and his peers) can only ever gain $100M in net worth before a wealt…

These billionaires don’t have a billion dollars in cash. They have a huge chunk of a company shares that are currently valued at >1 billion. So what you’re proposing is just that a company’s shares are taken away from the founders/execs as the company grows. It’s not just that you’re taking wealth away from them, but you’re fundamentally forcing them to sell off control of the company.

Well, I'm not proposing that people and companies do anything specific, it's up to them how to handle it. Maybe they'll choose to use less stock based compensation and more cash, maybe CEO's will end up with less compensation in general and the companies will retain more of that money for their own operations.

but you’re fundamentally forcing them to sell off control of the company

That part is true. Billionaires can retain control of their company by being good leaders and providing value to the company, not because they started it 20 years ago and retained a huge amount of stock.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#576

Post by ObscureScience » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:51 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #281

jerry1979 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not settled on this yet. I'm from the USA, and one thing that concerns me is the geopolitics of billionaires. What happens when USA taxes billionaires out of existence? Russia and China still have billionaires. Does that do something to the power relationships in the world? Is there such a thing as "our" billionaires? The other question I have has to do with feudalism. If we let "our" billionaires exist, does tha…

Does that do something to the power relationships in the world? The fact that you're even asking that is a reason we shouldn't have billionaires -- world power relationships shouldn't be based on the wealth of individual citizens. For example, what did Musk really talk about when he met with the president of Brazil? Did he represent American interests, Amazon Inc's interests, or Elon Musk's interests?

I somehow doubt he represented Amazon inc's interests.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#577

Post by eweise » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #422

eweise wrote: post #274

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Most of the wealth is in unrealized gains. How do tax that? Let's say I buy a painting for $1 and discover its a Van Gogh. Now its worth $50 million. Should I be forced to sell it to pay taxes?

Then you can borrow against the Van Gogh for the rest of your life and likely never pay taxes. Then when you die, assuming your Van Gogh minus what you borrowed to live is less than the estate tax exemption (today it sits ~$12M or $24M if married) you can pass on the $12M/$24M to your kids federal tax free. Is that fair? IDK.

Well estate tax is a different matter. I think its in the best interest of the country to tax estates heavily above a certain limit to help eliminate royalty in the US.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#578

Post by pessimizer » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #559

Johnny555 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that do something to the power relationships in the world? The fact that you're even asking that is a reason we shouldn't have billionaires -- world power relationships shouldn't be based on the wealth of individual citizens. For example, what did Musk really talk about when he met with the president of Brazil? Did he represent American interests, Amazon Inc's interests, or Elon Musk's interests?

Are you advocating against billionaires & capitalism, or against power relationships? In theoretically egalitarian systems like communism, a committee makes decisions about how to allocate resources. Then whoever holds most sway over the committee holds sway over resource allocation. If you do it by direct democracy, then whoever owns the news media & ad platforms (or has money to do massive PR campaigns and ad buys)…

The question is who they're beholden to, i.e. who they derive that power from. The problem with the person with the most sway over a committee being able to make a decision is less because:

1) The fact that it's necessary to "hold sway" is a result of the power not actually being held by that person, but being loaned to that person by the rest of the committee in a way that can be withdrawn at any time.

2) The committee members are all subject to the process that chooses them. That's the power center, and the character of that process defines the legitimacy of what the committee does. If a billionaire chooses them, the committee is a mask. If the people being governed choose them, that's the basis of popular sovereignty, and the justification for post-Enlightenment government in general.

> whoever owns the news media & ad platforms (or has money to do massive PR campaigns and ad buys) holds sway over resource allocation.

You're talking about other billionaires. The conversation is about not having billionaire.

So this boils down to if billionaires choose a committee, billionaires will run things, and if people vote for a committee and billionaires control all of the information that those people get, billionaires will run things. You can escape this if you don't have billionaires.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#579

Post by anonporridge » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:53 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #45

sillysaurusx wrote: post #15

I think if employees feel slighted by being fired, they're fooling themselves. The best mindset is that you could be gone tomorrow. It gives you clarity and purpose. It also happens to be the truth. Coinbase was also extremely generous with severance. 12 weeks plus two for every one year at the company, I think. I've had the experience of being let go without notice and without severance. Devs seem a little more griz…

People keep pointing to Armstrong's $110M house like it's some sort of injustice. If you think billionaires should exist at all, then that's one of the least-bad injustices imaginable Ok, I'll admit it, billionaires should not exist at all, there should be a heavy wealth tax that makes it hard to become a billionaire. Will a CEO work less hard if he (and his peers) can only ever gain $100M in net worth before a wealt…

This means that if your business grows to a multi billion dollar valuation, you are reward for your success by immediately losing controlling share of your business.

This might mean that motivated found might work less hard to make their businesses as competitive and big as possible, and could slow down the pace of innovation.

Re: Coinbase lays off around 1,100 employees

#580

Post by googlryas » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:54 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #537

seventhtiger wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a realistic scenario for illiquid assets like art and land. Antique roadshow has real examples filmed on camera.

Right, and there would be exceptions made for edge cases like "someone uncovers a hidden treasure trove" or "oil is discovered" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31745780

So it is no longer "Billionaires shouldn't exist", but "Billionaires who build a successful business shouldn't exist, but if you uncover a hidden treasure trove you can be a billionaire"