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If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

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Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#11

Post by Hasu »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

On the other hand, Microsoft was just a BASIC vendor, Amazon was a bookseller, Netflix was mail oder DVD company. Sometimes if you have a really good team/organization it makes sense to pivot based on the market.

Microsoft's BASIC evolved into Visual Basic and still exists as the .NET platform. Amazon still sells books. Netflix still operates their mail order DVD company. All three do a bunch of other things now, but those products allowed the companies to grow and expand.

I don't think expanding to other verticals is the same thing as a pivot, a pivot (imo) is when you entirely change your business strategy and product because the thing you were doing wasn't working. If you expand the definition of a pivot to any change in business strategy, then every company pivots all the time, and the term loses its meaning.

Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#14

Post by [deleted] »

Hasu wrote: post #11
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #7

On the other hand, Microsoft was just a BASIC vendor, Amazon was a bookseller, Netflix was mail oder DVD company. Sometimes if you have a really good team/organization it makes sense to pivot based on the market.

Microsoft's BASIC evolved into Visual Basic and still exists as the .NET platform. Amazon still sells books. Netflix still operates their mail order DVD company. All three do a bunch of other things now, but those products allowed the companies to grow and expand. I don't think expanding to other verticals is the same thing as a pivot, a pivot (imo) is when you entirely change your business strategy and product becau…

[deleted]

Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#16

Post by harpiaharpyja »

diob wrote: post #10
tschellenbach wrote: post #4

My first startup went through 2 majors pivots and eventually did quite well. The most valuable bit though was the experience. Second startup is in great shape thanks to that experience. I think many founders give up too early. You wont learn if you don't go through some difficult experiences.

Keep in mind survivorship bias though. There are probably loads who pivot multiple times yet still end in failure.

It's tricky though, you often can't tell if you are in the survivor set or not until after all those attempts at perseverance. Its easy to assume that after N failures the company is not in the survivor set, but you can never actually know. So without perseverance, no one would be a survivor.

Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#18

Post by yrechtman »

harpiaharpyja wrote: post #16
diob wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind survivorship bias though. There are probably loads who pivot multiple times yet still end in failure.

It's tricky though, you often can't tell if you are in the survivor set or not until after all those attempts at perseverance. Its easy to assume that after N failures the company is not in the survivor set, but you can never actually know. So without perseverance, no one would be a survivor.

OP here. I think i mixed the message too much by putting pivots in the same category as founder transitions and down-rounds.

Pivots are fine. But when you're basically just starting over on a completely new business with less money and a demoralized team, your likelihood of success is significantly impaired. Successful pivots need to carry ~something~ over of value

Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#19

Post by TameAntelope »

What's the difference between a pivot and founding a new company?

Sometimes your company has some baggage (messy cap table, bad hires, a down round, etc), and pivoting brings that baggage along. On the other hand, forming an entirely new company takes time and effort that may not be necessary.

What do fundraising entities think when they see a company fold/exit somehow in a way that keeps the founder free, and the founder immediately found a "similar" company solving an "only" marginally different problem?

Re: If it isn't going to work, just shut it down

#20

Post by idoh »

jackweirdy wrote: post #8
rossdavidh wrote: post #2

For those who (like me) didn't get the reference, the "Ship of Theseus" is a thought problem about whether, if every part of the ship has individually been replaced, it remains the Ship of Theseus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Is the ship of Theseus a single thought problem, or is it a different thought problem than when it was first thunk since all the present thinkers are different?

That's a funny joke. It does make me think about concepts and organizations and how they can drift. I don't think the Ship of Theseus has drifted much, but I think it totally applies to organizations and who is a member, e.g. people who supported the French Revolution / a school board / people who identify as liberal or conservative, etc.
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