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Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
41–50 of 387 posts
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#42> Newborns do feel pain. Presumably it doesn't switch on from nothing at birth, and pre-borns feel pain too. I'm pro-choice on abortion, but perhaps we should at least anaesthetise the fetus before late term abortions. Is that done? Or is their pain denied? Or is compassion toward that pain too difficult in the circumstances?
It's thought that the structures required for consciousness haven't developed until around 20 weeks. I'm not sure how based in evidence that position is.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#43This is, I believe, one of the downsides of empiricism and the fixation on citation rather than observation and reason. The idea that a whole profession came to reject the idea that infants are able to feel pain is astonishing, especially considering anyone who has ever taken care of infants knows that these little human beings react to things which are known to be painful. Babies feeling pain is something that shoul…
I absolutely agree. I think there are many factors that make people look aside. We “believe” what’s convenient to us. What immediately comes to mind - and I’m a meat-eater - is eating meat and harming animals. For animals, we tell ourselves what we need so that we can continue eating meat.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Given that we are actively attempting to deny the fact that fetuses feel pain, are we really that much more civilized? I don’t believe the discussion has been around whether a fetus feels pain or not, but around whether the fetus takes priority over the woman it is in.
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You’re acting as if the post you responded to denied fetuses feel pain. They did not. It just doesn’t matter.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#45> Newborns do feel pain. Presumably it doesn't switch on from nothing at birth, and pre-borns feel pain too. I'm pro-choice on abortion, but perhaps we should at least anaesthetise the fetus before late term abortions. Is that done? Or is their pain denied? Or is compassion toward that pain too difficult in the circumstances?
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What makes you think it’s murder? Are you also against IVF?
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#46A history to keep in mind as AI progresses.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was asking about the minority that aren't. Typically, exceptions to the rule are the most interesting.
Sure, but when it comes to macro policy they should be weighted appropriately.
I typically agree, but not when it comes to this. Very few percentage of Americans are executed, but we all agree that the way in which they are ought to be humane, for some definition of humane. Most people today seem to agree that 'painless' is a desirable property.
So if it's true fetuses feel pain past some time in pregnancy, then I think it's imperative than anesthesia is used, and that medicine create such a thing, lest we betray our own convictions.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#48This is, I believe, one of the downsides of empiricism and the fixation on citation rather than observation and reason. The idea that a whole profession came to reject the idea that infants are able to feel pain is astonishing, especially considering anyone who has ever taken care of infants knows that these little human beings react to things which are known to be painful. Babies feeling pain is something that shoul…
> Babies feeling pain is something that should be self-evident, shouldn't it?
We need to be careful here. Just because a system responds to painful stimulus does not necessarily mean that it "feels pain".
Consider this:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/06/google-places-engine...
Or this:
https://spectrum.ieee.org/why-people-demanded-privacy-to-con...
Or this:
https://junkerhq.net/MGS2/MarkIII.html
People tend to instinctively anthropomorphize, and this instinct is particularly strong when it comes to our offspring. Just because it seems conscious doesn't necessarily mean that it is.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do they anesthesize the child in the other 10%? EDIT: Answered my own question: apparently only in Utah as of 2016: http://www.healthlawpolicy.org/fetal-anesthesia/ `
Maybe they can't mandate it? There could be legal precedence that anything that can feel pain must be a living being and therefore to end it's life could be considered a criminal act.
Then perhaps we should reconsider the act?
But really, states have broad authority to do whatever. They can legalize murder if they really wanted.
Re: Infants' sense of pain is recognized, finally (1987)
#50Given that we are actively attempting to deny the fact that fetuses feel pain, are we really that much more civilized? Citation on my claim that there are those who deny that fetuses feel pain: http://www.healthlawpolicy.org/fetal-anesthesia/
> Given that we are actively attempting to deny the fact that fetuses feel pain, are we really that much more civilized? I don’t believe the discussion has been around whether a fetus feels pain or not, but around whether the fetus takes priority over the woman it is in.
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