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Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

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Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#91

Post by BizarroLand »

willcipriano wrote: post #64
thematrixturtle wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/vbhb9v/conc...

So this is how Reddit manufactures consent, fun.

Even the subredditdrama (SRD) subreddit has drama, so there are posts on subredditdramadrama (SRDD) about how one of the mods of SRD is also a mod of r/food who permabanned someone because they said "Chicken Sandwich" to a post where someone called a piece of boneless fried chicken on a bun a "chicken burger".

The mod of r/food is also a mod of SRD and started banning people for talking about the drama on SRD, so they moved the conversation to SRDD as that mod wasn't a mod there so they could talk freely about it.

You can't escape the pettiness or drama anywhere, no matter how small the group is there will be infighting and manipulation.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#92

Post by Tiktaalik »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #48
suzzer99 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the real financial markets have a bottom where contrarian investors will step in and stop the free fall. What tangible value is there for a contrarian investor in crypto?

"Historical upside potential". If it crashes 90% and then goes back to 30% of its peak a couple years later, pundits will declare bitcoin collapsed, but the people that bought around the bottom will make out like bandits. I dont see many failure modes for crypto itself. The exchanges and all the speculative bullshit built around it are a big problem, but the network itself will survive and there is a price where peop…

For a regular equity the thing that causes it to "go back to 30%" would be investors recognizing that the company is a good company with real cash flows and real products and the stock now undervalued, and so they come in to buy shares.

There's no similar mechanism with crypto. There's no annual dividend that is now on sale.

More likely to simply go to $0 as everyone heads to the exits.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#93

Post by MockObject »

imustbeevil wrote: post #43
silisili wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have zero idea. I did get the correct APY for one month before withdrawing, paid no fee, and was left with the same question.

They may have a whitepaper or something, but the simplest way to generate higher returns in a bull market is just to use leverage. I can sell you an ETF that returns 2x the NASDAQ, and use the money to buy a 3x and pocket the difference. It looks like I'm giving you a better return than the NASDAQ, but when the market goes down everything obviously collapses because it's only designed to work in one direction. Of cou…

> use the money to buy a 3x

What's a 3x?

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#94

Post by dehrmann »

ImaCake wrote: post #19
Deritio wrote: post #11

Oh boy oh boy that thread had lots of ETH and sETH and oETH und BTC and what not. No wonder that it's hard for some people to see the Ponzi schemes, pyramid schemes and what else those things are called. Regulations anyone? Or do we now just see people loosing their money?

My inability to understand these financial instruments without hours of study is why I never put money into anything other than a couple of major currencies for funsies. Vanguard ETFs, mortgages, and bank accounts make sense. So I keep serious money in those.

> bank accounts

I'd argue it's hard to understand the higher-order effects of fractional reserve banking. The accounts are at least backed by a government and have over 100 years of lessons baked into them, so that's something.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#95

Post by dvngnt_ »

thetis wrote: post #63
cm2187 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so amusing to see crypto redoing 100 years of financial scandals at accelerated pace: mass money laundering, ponzi schemes, non separation of client and firm money by brokers, market manipulation, inability to sustain a “bank”run, misleading marketing material sold to retail investors. This is something fascinating for a finance professional. The paradox being that crypto is proving the benefits of heavy financ…

and don't forget the "i lost my bitcoin password so i lost all my assets" and "my hard drive has been destroyed so i lost all my bitcoins" All those stories were solved across 120y of crisis and financials regulations. Not all of course, but finance, as a basis of the XXI century economy is far more robust that it was

dark markets tho

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#96

Post by hackernudes »

ogogmad wrote: post #61
dave_sullivan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A company can go out of business and cease to function. What would cause the Bitcoin network to cease to function? There will always be a market price and it will fluctuate. But the end of Bitcoin? Would be like the end of BitTorrent, not gonna happen.

[EDIT: Made my argument clearer.] Not a finance expert, but I disagree with what you're saying: There's a feedback loop between: 1. The price of BTC, which depends on people's willingness to mine it (without which, BTC doesn't have security). 2. The willingness to mine BTC, which depends on the price. Why would you mine BTC if you're not sure whether you'll be able to sell it for more than you mined it for? A decline…

It totally is like BitTorrent. As long as some people are willing to run the software (mining + full nodes) it will work.

The "feedback loop" you describe would reach equilibrium due to difficulty adjustment (blocks could be really slow for some time). Granted it would then become cheaper to 51% attack. Maybe one could consider Bitcoin "dead" at that point but it would still be working.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#98

Post by andrewflnr »

hoseja wrote: post #79
MrMan wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not sure I want to live in a world where violence is evenly distributed, look at the US right now. that is still only a small number of shootings a day. imagine when there is no monopoly on violence, you won't be able to do anything but join a militia or work as a slave to a local militia

I'm just pointing out those "120 years of evolution" are not about some clever solutions but the state forcibly preventing hustlers from parting fools and their money so the legitimacy of state parting everyone and their money isn't questioned.

Believe it or not, even with a monopoly in violence you still have to create clever solutions, even more so when you're trying to broadly preserve liberty as opposed to just being a dictator.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#99

Post by MauranKilom »

MockObject wrote: post #93
imustbeevil wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may have a whitepaper or something, but the simplest way to generate higher returns in a bull market is just to use leverage. I can sell you an ETF that returns 2x the NASDAQ, and use the money to buy a 3x and pocket the difference. It looks like I'm giving you a better return than the NASDAQ, but when the market goes down everything obviously collapses because it's only designed to work in one direction. Of cou…

> use the money to buy a 3x What's a 3x?

Someone who is willing to enter a "NASDAQ will go up" bet with you, where they pay you 3x the amount it went up when it does, and you pay them 3x (or some other number you agree on) the amount it went down when it does.

Re: Celsius Appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it

#100

Post by MauranKilom »

glerk wrote: post #84
trhway wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that token represent staked ETH, ie. ETH which nothing can be done with, ie. no "trade it, spend it, stake it on another platform, etc. " ? Now, you take that new token, exchange into new ETH, stake that new ETH, and get again that new token, ad infinitum, every time increasing your staked ETH amount and thus accruing stake yield of that multiplied staked ETH ... One would naturally expect that a system allow…

> Now, you take that new token, exchange into new ETH You can only exchange it back into ETH after the lock period is over. Sure, you can buy ETH from someone else in exchange for this token, but you will pay a premium for that: obviously, people prefer ETH to some token that can be exchanged for ETH in the future and there is not an infinite supply of ETH available to be sold for this token. So no, you can’t just in…

That's just a different way to say you can leverage yourself close to infinity if you want.

(How close depends on how much sETH trades to ETH on the dollar - if I understand the article correctly, it used to be pretty close.)

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