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Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

mainichi.jp

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Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#191

Post by antoniuschan99 »

akomtu wrote: post #2

How are they going to verify identity of the supposed "cyberbully"? Judge: "Here is a screenshot of an internet page where you use offensive language." Defendant: "But your honor, here is a screenshot with your name on it where you call this process fabricated."

Not sure how the authorities found out, but in the article it mentioned the cast member in Terrace house who was cyber bullied (which is ultimately why this law got passed I think).

I think the cyberbullies constantly dm’ed her with hateful words and there were at least 2 that were apprehended.

Anyways there’s stories about it on the internet you can read more about it.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#192

Post by MathYouF »

Manuel_D wrote: post #186
MathYouF wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people shouldn't say evil and hateful things about anyone, no matter how bad they are, because it makes the entire culture of public discourse more toxic. Americans seem to have very little reverence for the quality and civility of public discourse in general anymore, and often say "the other side is worse" or "I'm intolerant of intolerance" as their justification for personally contributing to the normalizatio…

This is exactly the mentality I'm afraid of. The worst censors are the ones that don't realize that they're being censorious, they think they're just promoting civility. What happens when, say, someone says that disapproval of natal males competing in women's sports is a violation of civility? What happens when someone claims support for termination of a pregnancy is violation of civility? The issue is that people ha…

I think the fact that Americans have trouble understanding how one could express the full range of political ideology while still remaining civil and not bullying each other is part of the problem.

One can express any proposal for legislative or judicial course of action without demeaning the inherent humanity of another and resorting to profanity, lewdness,and hatred. Learning to express opinions in this way can help contribute to us recognizing ways to solve our mutual problems as a society,ans avoid people feeling so dehumanised that they harm themselves or others.

I do appreciate your concern though for preserving our ability to disagree and express any political belief without censure.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#193

Post by MathYouF »

soraminazuki wrote: post #188
MathYouF wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people shouldn't say evil and hateful things about anyone, no matter how bad they are, because it makes the entire culture of public discourse more toxic. Americans seem to have very little reverence for the quality and civility of public discourse in general anymore, and often say "the other side is worse" or "I'm intolerant of intolerance" as their justification for personally contributing to the normalizatio…

> Maybe people shouldn't say evil and hateful things about anyone Noone is debating that. The concern here is about having law enforcement step in to such delicate personal issues. It won't work the way lawmakers say it would, and the abuse potential for such laws are too high. > Japan doesn't seem to have these problems with people culturally defecting from civility even when they disagree I assure you that Japanese…

I've lived in both countries, living with citizens of both countries, seeing popular media in both countries, long enough to know there's a massive difference in the degree of hateful and impolite behavior the average person is willing to engage in for any given topic of conversation, and that citizens of both countries seem to enjoy the same degree of freedom of expression of political views which diverge from the interests of those in power. The difference is how they choose to say things, and that has downstream effects of their ability to continue to view those they disagree with as humans worthy of at least some degree of compassion and respect.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#194

Post by whatshisface »

makeitdouble wrote: post #178
whatshisface wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with what you're saying is that incivility does not directly cause death. I could not actually kill you by writing a lot of really clever insults, not even if they were worthy of Guybrush Threepwood. The deaths "caused" by insults are in fact mediated through rare mental illnesses, and that calls in to question the issue of responsibility. If you bumped into me on the sidewalk and, because a rare illness…

How would it be different if you purposefully tried every possible insult until the “right” one hits and has the other side die ? Or flooded the person by every means you can think of until it exceeds their capacity to ignore your insults ? There is an intentionality that you are not addressing, and is at the core of this law.

Is there any combination of words I could write to you that would kill you? That, to me, sounds like something from an SCP story, not the real world. Are you really suggesting that everyone has a secret password that will make them commit suicide?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#195

Post by theplumber »

kazinator wrote: post #104
theplumber wrote: post #90

Am I the only one who thinks that once you expose yourself to the public you should be prepared to take some "insults"? Just like celebrities you become a "mini celebrity" so you can expect some online harrasment. Not to mention that you can always close your account/make it private.

Would you be okay with me following you when you walk on the street, shouting insults into your face? Why not, you're exposing yourself in public!

Online I can close the tab/game or just block you. Why playing a video game should be equal to attending a catholic course? If I don't like the comments recieved on my twitter/fb/instagram account I can just disable the comments.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#196

Post by tzs »

_8j50 wrote: post #156

99% conviction rate. Nice law but practically, if you are accused you will get convicted. I don't know why they make a mockery of their judicial system. Either a ton of bad guys don't get tried or a ton of innocent people are getting convicted.

> Either a ton of bad guys don't get tried or a ton of innocent people are getting convicted.

You missed a possibility. Maybe they put in sufficient effort during investigation and when deciding whether to prosecute to weed out all the innocent people then and build good cases against the actual bad guys.

Very high conviction rights are symptoms of both puppet criminal justice systems that just convict whoever the state wants convicted and of criminal justice systems that only convict actual bad guys and do a good job of getting wrongly or mistakenly accused innocent people out of the system quickly. You need to look deeper to figure out which kind you are dealing with.

It is when a criminal justice system has a low conviction rate that you can be sure something is wrong.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#197

Post by tchalla »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #162

It's crazy to me reading all these comments applying the American cultural, historical and legal context to discuss a Japanese law about bullying. You can't translate your usual talking points about American politics 1:1 to another country.

I have stopped being surprised by this on the Internet. It’s nauseating and very off putting. I’m amazed how people can’t think there are other ways of dealing with the same issue.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#198

Post by Manuel_D »

MathYouF wrote: post #192
Manuel_D wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the mentality I'm afraid of. The worst censors are the ones that don't realize that they're being censorious, they think they're just promoting civility. What happens when, say, someone says that disapproval of natal males competing in women's sports is a violation of civility? What happens when someone claims support for termination of a pregnancy is violation of civility? The issue is that people ha…

I think the fact that Americans have trouble understanding how one could express the full range of political ideology while still remaining civil and not bullying each other is part of the problem. One can express any proposal for legislative or judicial course of action without demeaning the inherent humanity of another and resorting to profanity, lewdness,and hatred. Learning to express opinions in this way can hel…

And again, what happens when people claim that a certain political view inherently demeans humanity of another? This is already the case: people already proclaim that some political views are inherently dehumanizing.

Invariably, those in power will enforce these restrictions against their opponents to their own benefit.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#199

Post by [deleted] »

alex_sf wrote: post #21
bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

What is 'hate speech'?

[deleted]

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#200

Post by dekken_ »

alex_sf wrote: post #21
bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

What is 'hate speech'?

Subjective, depending how I'm feeling at any particular time.
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