Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

mainichi.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 235 posts

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#141

Post by whatshisface »

cromulent wrote: post #110
whatshisface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States has more freedom of speech than just about anywhere else, although it was a recent development, only coming into its full modern form after a hard fight the 1970s.

Hmmm. I was reminded of the "free speech zones" when I read your comment. It's hard to judge, of course, but the USA is 42nd in freedom of speech from one press/media perspective. https://rsf.org/en/index

The RSF index includes a lot of things that are beyond the freedom of speech in terms of no law being passed to infringe it, like "economic constraints linked to non-state actors (advertisers and commercial partners)," or "cultural constraints, including pressure on journalists to not question certain bastions of power or influence or not cover certain issues because it would run counter to the prevailing culture in the country or territory."

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#142

Post by [deleted] »

Manuel_D wrote: post #112

Laws like this sound well-intentioned enough but are rampant for abuse and unequal application. If someone is outraged at some controversial policy or statement, how does that play out? Especially when the people in question are public figures: > professional wrestler Hana Kimura died in 2020 at age 22 following cyberbullying on social media over her remarks on a reality romance show that she had been part of. Imagin…

[deleted]

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#143

Post by wowokay »

comrh wrote: post #118
whatshisface wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with what you're saying is that incivility does not directly cause death. I could not actually kill you by writing a lot of really clever insults, not even if they were worthy of Guybrush Threepwood. The deaths "caused" by insults are in fact mediated through rare mental illnesses, and that calls in to question the issue of responsibility. If you bumped into me on the sidewalk and, because a rare illness…

That really undersells how horrible targeted harassment of a person and everyone that person knows can be. > The degree to which the effect of the cause is typical matters a lot in designing legislation or making fair decisions that apply equally to everyone. I think this was added after I replied. I would certainly agree this legislation is overly broad and probably not helpful. At first I thought you were arguing c…

How? An individual can block numbers, block or deactivate social media, if those dont work law enforcement of civil litigation are likely available options.

I actively practice antisocial online behaviors. I disable game chats and rarely use voice, I block or purge things in my news feed that I don't like and at the end of the day my preferences dont impact other peoples' online lives.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#144

Post by dfxm12 »

Hana Kimura's mother, Kyoko Kimura (also a pro wrestler), recently had a fundraiser wrestling show to help her with legal fees associated with suing the TV station the show aired on. Kyoko even came out of retirement for a match! Hopefully this can give her a sliver of peace of mind over the situation.

The show was called "Hana bagus!" [0]. was always a fan of Kyoko, and even early in her career, Hana was already a better wrestler overall. It's sad to lose such talent so young...

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hana_Kimura_Memorial_Show_2

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#145

Post by alephnan »

squarefoot wrote: post #137

Abuse coming in 3..2..1... As with every law involving limitation of free speech, it will be easily abused by powerful people against less powerful people. Also, it appears they already had a perfectly legit punishment: " ... The penalty applied to the crime under the pre-revised law was "detention for less than 30 days" or "a fine of less than 10,000 yen (roughly $74)" -- the lightest punishments under the Penal Cod…

> Now I don't know anything about prisons in Japan, but I'm 100% sure I wouldn't want to spend 29 days in any jail for any reason. Wouldn't ensuring any abuser gets that 4 weeks in jail be already a hell of a deterrence?

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

For starters, there are no miranda rights.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#146

Post by minsc_and_boo »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #129
minsc_and_boo wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free speech was never about consequent-free speech. The philosophers behind Free Speech even concluded that expression which harms individuals should be prevented, aka harm principle: > That principle is, that the sole end for which mankind are warranted, individually or collectively, in interfering with the liberty of action of any of their number, is self-protection. That the only purpose for which power can be rig…

Tommyrot and Poppycock! That is more or less the precise opposite reading of "The Harm Principle" that Mill intended. You're missing the nuance of what these words meant: > the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. Mill then set out extremely limited definition of harm that excluded more or less all the incide…

>That is more or less the precise opposite reading of "The Harm Principle" that Mill intended.

JSM separated the Harm Principle from the Offense Principle, but still said that free speech should be curtailed when the expression harms individuals.

Nowhere does JSM say freedom of speech is freedom from all consequences.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#147

Post by unknownus3r »

Bullying is a part of reality. I see people bully others in offices for every company I have ever worked with and at, whether it’s passive aggressive slights, framing, etc.

You’re never going to get rid of it entirely because humans are an inherently hierarchical species and bullying is a method of establishing hierarchy and dominance.

While trying to punish going over board may be a good thing, this whole “let’s all hold hands and sing cumbiyah” and get rid of bullying is nonsense.

No two people are the same, if one is smarter or stronger than the other, the lesser competitor will use tactics like bullying or social engineering to try to establish dominance. Strong competitors use it as well to disinvite challengers. We reward this at every level of our society so to pretend that it’s evil in children is really preparing them for being dysfunctional when they become adults.

The true solution to getting bullied is to:

- fight back ferociously

- get them to bully someone else

- take it and be a loser

I got bullied a lot when I was a kid, I had to learn to be tough

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#148

Post by makeitdouble »

theplumber wrote: post #90

Am I the only one who thinks that once you expose yourself to the public you should be prepared to take some "insults"? Just like celebrities you become a "mini celebrity" so you can expect some online harrasment. Not to mention that you can always close your account/make it private.

We wouldn’t expect well known kids at school to accept random verbal abuse all day every day, and ask them to just move school if they get tired of it. Why should it be different online ?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#149

Post by unknownus3r »

Manuel_D wrote: post #112

Laws like this sound well-intentioned enough but are rampant for abuse and unequal application. If someone is outraged at some controversial policy or statement, how does that play out? Especially when the people in question are public figures: > professional wrestler Hana Kimura died in 2020 at age 22 following cyberbullying on social media over her remarks on a reality romance show that she had been part of. Imagin…

are you suggesting that they could bully others with the law?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#150

Post by [deleted] »

wowokay wrote: post #143
comrh wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That really undersells how horrible targeted harassment of a person and everyone that person knows can be. > The degree to which the effect of the cause is typical matters a lot in designing legislation or making fair decisions that apply equally to everyone. I think this was added after I replied. I would certainly agree this legislation is overly broad and probably not helpful. At first I thought you were arguing c…

How? An individual can block numbers, block or deactivate social media, if those dont work law enforcement of civil litigation are likely available options. I actively practice antisocial online behaviors. I disable game chats and rarely use voice, I block or purge things in my news feed that I don't like and at the end of the day my preferences dont impact other peoples' online lives.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN