Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

mainichi.jp

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 235 posts

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#31

Post by yuuu »

bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

You think it's a great step forward, but you're scared of it and feel that society is becoming more closed off because of a lack of freedom of expression. How does this make any sense?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#32

Post by nsxwolf »

bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

You think it’s a great step forward but you’re worried about the particular edge case that might actually affect you.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#33

Post by robin_reala »

alex_sf wrote: post #21
bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

What is 'hate speech'?

If you want a legal definition you’ll need to specify a country.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#34

Post by lin83 »

Jasper_ wrote: post #11
kwatsonafter wrote: post #3

As I get older I'm more in favor of this kind of thing. Freedom of speech ought (here I go; a terrible Kantian asserting an, "ought") to apply to political speech. Using FoS as a defense against aimlessly attacking others seems to undermine what is a basic expectation of civility (ie. not being made to feel unsafe) in advanced societies. I feel like there's a class of people that would gladly slaughter cows in front…

These rules typically get applied in ways that advantage the already privileged. e.g. privileged people can say mean stuff online to those under them, but those without such power will go to jail for trying to expose the crimes or bad behaviors of those they work for. Basically, Masayoshi Son won't ever go to jail (he's too important to go to jail), but someone trying to expose his financial crimes will.

> Insult charges apply when an individual insults another in public to damage their social reputation.

This is a gift to the rich and powerful to punish and gag whistleblowers and activists.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#35

Post by 0xy »

bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

The problem with hate speech is it's subjective and wishy-and-washy, so it tends to be hijacked by social campaigners with an agenda who use it as a weapon against ideological enemies.

Prime example is transgender rights activists painting those who question the efficacy of transgender treatments as perpetuating hate speech, even if the concerns are grounded.

For that reason, hate speech laws are a terrible idea. Nobody has the right to not be offended, that's not what modern civilization was ever built on.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#36

Post by nullspace »

systemvoltage wrote: post #12
kwatsonafter wrote: post #3

As I get older I'm more in favor of this kind of thing. Freedom of speech ought (here I go; a terrible Kantian asserting an, "ought") to apply to political speech. Using FoS as a defense against aimlessly attacking others seems to undermine what is a basic expectation of civility (ie. not being made to feel unsafe) in advanced societies. I feel like there's a class of people that would gladly slaughter cows in front…

So let's throw one of the most important pillars of a free society under the bus because it makes someone uncomfortable? We have a functional justice system where a specific crime must be charged and proven. If it is a serious crime, a randomized group of citizens of the society must be convinced (Grand Jury). This kind of laws have no place in a free society and would lead to oppression and loss of liberty. Malaise…

Interestingly, a close analogy, hate speech, is perfectly legal in the United States. It looks like laws to ban hate speech have been found unconstitutionally. This is in contrast to most of the other countries around the world.

United States values freedom of speech much, much more than any other country around the world does. Both fortunately and unfortunately. I'd expect most of the rest of the world to follow what Japan is trying to do here, or something close.

I don't know how I feel about this personally. I completely agree with you - but defending free speech is hard. When an extremely popular and influential person says (but not threateningly) that you/your family are not entitled to exist and live freely, when your country is not entitled to exist, would you support that persons right to say that?

Bullying is different though. If narrow/specific enough, causing mental and emotional distress online, must have the same level of punishment as it does when it's done in the real world.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#37

Post by lijogdfljk »

causality0 wrote: post #10

Results this are why I vigorously defend even the outer fringes of free speech. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

What are your thoughts on free speech televised? Which is a sister to the blurring line between old ramifications of free speech and new ramifications. Thoughts?

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#38

Post by fleetwoodsnack »

causality0 wrote: post #10

Results this are why I vigorously defend even the outer fringes of free speech. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Curious which jurisdiction you operate-from. If it’s within the United States, you probably haven’t done much else but “vigorously defend” the ideology for most of your life. There’s never been an absolute right to freedom of speech, and each jurisdiction takes a different approach; this is even more pronounced internationally.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#39

Post by danuker »

alex_sf wrote: post #21
bobthe3 wrote: post #8

Personally I feel this is law is a great step forward to stop hate speech and other forms of severe harassment but the thought that if you happen to “rage” on someone mid game and receive jail time for that scares me. Society is becoming more and more closed off in a way where rather then freedom of expression you have to limit ur speech to not offend another.

What is 'hate speech'?

I am not too certain. But here are some examples (NSFW).

https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbols/search

Looks like they involve discrimination (on race or religion or such). But Japan's new law is more general.

Re: Japan passes revised penal code with harsher punishment for cyberbullying

#40

Post by whatshisface »

fleetwoodsnack wrote: post #38
causality0 wrote: post #10

Results this are why I vigorously defend even the outer fringes of free speech. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

Curious which jurisdiction you operate-from. If it’s within the United States, you probably haven’t done much else but “vigorously defend” the ideology for most of your life. There’s never been an absolute right to freedom of speech, and each jurisdiction takes a different approach; this is even more pronounced internationally.

The United States has more freedom of speech than just about anywhere else, although it was a recent development, only coming into its full modern form after a hard fight the 1970s.
Post reply on HN