For startups, java (script)? Is the best, from a manpower market point of view.
Why Rust is a great choice for startups
61–70 of 294 posts
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that big issue https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-70-percent-of-all-se...
This is why we need a professional organization to hold software developers accountable to the same standard as other fields of engineering.
For this to work, you'd need most of the code to be written by people who are paid (i.e. professionals).
In my experience somewhere between 50-80% of code at most places is stuff pulled off maven/npm/github/etc written by people who are completely uncompensated, and possibly as hobby projects.
You could censure devs pulling in unverified code, but so far as I can tell, the vast majority of devs are really bad at reading code. I'm doubtful it would change anything.
This seems like something that should maybe covered in a computer science curriculum, but most colleges seem to have an aversion to becoming "job training" centers. If they don't start teaching it, I'm not sure how you can expect people to have training in it. Do we need a training course outside the traditional university system?
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#63I started my first Rust project a month ago after working for years in Golang and before that Python (and before that Perl, C/C++ and Turbo Pascal). I really like the whole experience but I'm not sure if I'd recommend writing all your backend code in Rust as a startup. Rust definitely provides a pleasant experience and is very powerful. If you can stick to the standard library I think Rust is great, though the packag…
Deno could be a good alternative. It should hit GA 3 QT this year.
I would not choose Deno for that considering how little there is for it currently and how much of what there is available that is plastered with all caps warnings to not use it in production.
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue that Rust is a great choice for startups exactly because you can find people who will either take a pay cut or work in a hectic environment, just so they can use Rust. Rust has been on top of everyone's "want to learn" list for half a decade, and it feels quite mature.
I'm surprised to see multiple people mentioning pay cuts. In the Stackoverflow Annual Developer survey[1] I see Rust developers consistently being among the highest paid in the industry. [1] https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#top-paying-te... edit : adding link to all previous years https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey
Who knows how much they would earn had they not taken that pay cut!
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#65If prototyping speed and time-to-market are important, better choose a different language: one with a garbage collector.
This applies to most startups.
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#66What does Rust offer over modern C++ with smart pointers and RAII?
Have you ever wondered what a "moved-from" object [0] in C++ contains? In Rust, such objects are inaccessible due to enforcement of the compiler. In C++, they are accessible. Have you ever wondered what performance implications that has? Have you looked into what the C++ standard tells us about "moved-from" STL objects, what state they are in?
[0] e.g. `b = std::move(a)`, what is in `a` now?
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#67Actually, I think Rust is a godsend to startups for the following reasons: 1.) startups rarely have time, expertise or budget for extensive unit tests, mock-up tests, UI-automation tests or paid third-party Q/A services, 2.) software product users these days have a strong tendency never to submit bug reports or work with product support, but instead just leave negative reviews and/or just move on to the competition, 3.) when an MVP actually does get a chance to grow in size and complexity, startups hit the growing pains of efficient problem report accumulation, recognition (troubleshooting, often with a non-technical third-party), prioritization and resolution.
Every programmer who has ever maintained a product of 100,000+ lines-of-code will tell you the same thing: shift as much responsibility as possible on the compiler (and the API consumption boundaries). Fixing code due to a bug with memory management, unexpected mutation, multi-threading, etc. will cost you 10 times the effort required to write that code in the first place.
Just IMHO.
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#68>(...) despite my experience and best intentions, I was in fact making mistakes with C. Subtle leaks, use-after-free,(...) Rust made it very clear that I was not the programmer I thought I was. This really resonated with me. I feel a lot more confident writing code in Rust than say in C or Java. However, in my opinion, it also comes with a downside: These days, whenever I use a 'more forgiving' programming language I…
I understand the comparison with C (the memory management) but I wonder how do you compare Rust to Java? What is it that makes you feel more confident in Rust compared to Java?
You're right that with regards to memory management, using Java over Rust doesn't make me any more nervous. The things I really miss are at the type level. Small things like the compiler forcing you to be explicit about mutability. Large things like Rust enums and pattern matching which make it easy to model complex workflows without worrying about missing any cases.
Let me also make clear that I like the direction Java is moving (even if is taking decades) For example, something I look forward to in Java is pattern matching on switch expressions, which just got added as a preview feature in the latest LTS.
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#69I started my first Rust project a month ago after working for years in Golang and before that Python (and before that Perl, C/C++ and Turbo Pascal). I really like the whole experience but I'm not sure if I'd recommend writing all your backend code in Rust as a startup. Rust definitely provides a pleasant experience and is very powerful. If you can stick to the standard library I think Rust is great, though the packag…
>Yeah, everyone wants to be a Rust programmer
I understand why you might have got that impression, but that's a far cry from the reality
Re: Why Rust is a great choice for startups
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I recently was thinking about how smart/not-smart would it be to become a full-on 'Rust developer'. So I thought, OK, what happens if two decades from now I'm a grey-beard Rust programmer, and the only jobs I can find are maintaining some legacy Rust code... And then it struck me, I'd be completely fine with it. As in, if there's a language in which dealing with legacy code doesn't seem daunting, then that's Rust. Be…
If Rust fizzles, which it still very much could , it will mean you are stuck using a 10-year-old compiler on an ancient OS release.
In principle, yes. But bear in mind that Rust doesn't depend on a runtime, and compiles to LLVM IR, so what it depends on to run on the target system is a lot less than something like PHP, Python, or JS. So to really end up in deep shit the LLVM project would also have to fizzle together with Rust.
And given how some 'big names' in tech are getting more and more involved in Rust and opting to write core low-level stuff in it, I'm not terribly worried about Rust and LLVM fizzling to the point where I have to worry about any of that. I mean, it is orders of magnitude less of an issue than depending on Node.