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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

gov.scot

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Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#351

Post by ChrisKnott »

kmlx wrote: post #215
afavour wrote: post #2

As a Brit that didn’t want Scotland to be independent last time around: good luck to them. Brexit has shown very clearly that Scotland wants to chart a different path to England and IMO they should be allowed to do it. …just be generous to English folks seeking asylum from Tory rule, yeah?

> Brexit has shown very clearly that Scotland wants to chart a different path to England and IMO they should be allowed to do it. i don't get this. to me, in 2022, all the countries of the UK are exactly the same. even Ireland in some aspects. same language, same history, more or less same laws. what's so special about Scotland, and what's their "different path" as compared to, let's say, Wales?

I don't know why this is downvoted. If Scotland becomes independent then Scotland and the UK will probably be the most similar countries in the world.

When you are very close, small differences can seem much larger and more important than they really are.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#353

Post by refurb »

sofixa wrote: post #223
refurb wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they pulling that “it’s zee Russians!” in the UK too? Seems to be a very popular bogeyman all over the Western world.

Considering the amount of dirty Russian money ( Londongrad), the fact that Russian spies tried to assasinate a former Russian spy, murdering British civilians by accident, and Russian support for Brexit... It's not a boogeyman, it's part of the reality.

None of those things actually infer Russian interference. At least not any more than say Chinese, or French.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#354

Post by mantas »

andybak wrote: post #326
mantas wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark's left-wing government is planning to send away asylum seekers too. It's interesting times when protecting borders from illegal immigration is seen as „far right“. It's not „far right“ rising, it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwan...

> it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. Everyone that learns about the Overton window is immediately convinced the other side has been pulling it in their direction for years.

Are you trying to say that migration laws and practices and coverage in mass media didn't drift in certain direction compared to 20/40/60 years ago?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#355

Post by 88 »

scott_w wrote: post #211
robin_reala wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thouroughly disagree with the practice and it’s morally repugnant, but hasn’t it just been court-tested and declared legal? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jun/10/uk-deportati...

No, it hasn’t. The court ruled that there’s nothing in U.K. law that bars specific flights but they didn’t rule on the legality of the policy itself. This will be challenged at the court of appeal and will, eventually, be found a breach of international law.

So it’s illegal in your opinion but not in actual fact?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#356

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

afavour wrote: post #2

As a Brit that didn’t want Scotland to be independent last time around: good luck to them. Brexit has shown very clearly that Scotland wants to chart a different path to England and IMO they should be allowed to do it. …just be generous to English folks seeking asylum from Tory rule, yeah?

As a Welsh secessionist, I can't for the life of me square the idea of wanting to leave union that for all its massive faults is at least something you can understand and engage with, to replace that by joining a union that is distant, more artificial and certainly more vague and impenetrable to the common person.

Why would you leave economic and political dominance by Westminster with no control over the economics of your borders (the capital flows, the tax loopholes, the destabilising and exploitative 'investment', the primacy of trade which leads to the all encompassing trade for trade's sake, the depopulation of youth) to instead give that control up to Frankfurt and Brussels?

I think we (Scotland, and Wales) should define what we want to do first and why and where we want to go / want to be. Then in some cases trade agreements will be useful to promote these goals. but they have to be tightly controlled and compensated for.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#357

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

temp8964 wrote: post #270
SilverBirch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, but literally today is the first day that the government starting flying asylum seekers to Rwanda[1], and yesterday they published legislation with the intention of breaking international law[2]. They've also recently curtailed rights to legal protest[3]. The Prime Minister has a history of law breaking including illegally shutting down our parliament[4]. This government only got their majority when UKIP c…

What’s your reasonable definition of far-right?

There's a saying about the UK's far right parties (the likes of UKIP, National Front (1) etc) that in the long run it's not a winning proposition, as the Tories can always adopt the same rhetoric, and they always have better suits.

This has indeed happened.

1) https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/old-poster-sparks...

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#358

Post by barneygale »

temp8964 wrote: post #270
SilverBirch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, but literally today is the first day that the government starting flying asylum seekers to Rwanda[1], and yesterday they published legislation with the intention of breaking international law[2]. They've also recently curtailed rights to legal protest[3]. The Prime Minister has a history of law breaking including illegally shutting down our parliament[4]. This government only got their majority when UKIP c…

What’s your reasonable definition of far-right?

Immigration enforcement raids against mostly black/brown people. Putting them on flights to countries they left as infants. Sending asylum seekers to Rwanda for "processing". Sending British citizens to the Carribean because we were too disorganised to issue them passports in the 50s.

The Tory party has absorbed the UKIP/EDL/etc vote. It rules by populism alone at this stage.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#359

Post by AlgorithmicTime »

chrisseaton wrote: post #172
ggm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jimmy Maxton is dead as well: Red Clydeside long gone. There were scots Trotskyists, the rock climber Dougal Haston's family notably (he's dead too. I don't think he was political btw) The point being made here is Scotland has a socialist history and has had explicitly socialist candidates elected to parliament in recent history. Like.. 2003-2007. I'd hesitate to call it dead just yet.

> explicitly socialist candidates elected to parliament I think it’s pretty unreasonable to call these people ‘far left’. I don’t think they’re planning to take up arms like the IRA for example.

No post body was provided.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#360

Post by maratc »

> But the point is this: in an independent Scotland, crucial decision-making power will rest with the people who live here – not with Westminster governments that do not command the support of people in Scotland, and which pursue policies, for example, Brexit, that are deeply damaging to Scotland's interests.

So, the Scots don't want that the people who make the decisions would be in Westminster — they want the people who make the decisions to be in ... Brussels, Strasbourg and Hague?

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