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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

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Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#341

Post by Xylakant »

curiousgal wrote: post #315
k_sze wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the Brexit debacle, I joked with my Scottish ex-boss that, one day, Scotland will leave the UK, rejoin the EU, and then reabsorb the UK. And then the UK will be renamed United Kingdom of Scotland instead of United Kingdom of Great Britain. He laughed.

Will/Would the EU accept Scotland's membership though? What about the currency? It all seems so complicated

It is all complicated, but have you had a look lately how complicated brexit is? So I'd say we're at the point where it's about picking which kinds of complications you prefer.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#342

Post by Jcowell »

DocTomoe wrote: post #249
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the EU need to form a realistic opposition to the U.S.?

Because we have learned the US to be an unreliable partner and a source for most of our problems, several times now. It's time to stand on our own feet.

Can I get a source on this? From my shallow understanding of history. Europe is the source of Europe’s problems.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#343

Post by Codesleuth »

sideshowb wrote: post #107
physicsguy wrote: post #46

With hard headed view, I struggle to see that an independent Scotland will be economically able to deal with large cuts to public sector spending that would almost certainly be required. Per capita spending is already higher in Scotland than in the rest of the UK. Scottish companies have debts denominated in pounds. There would almost certainly be capital flight to rUK. Large businesses may relocate. There is no plan…

Doesn't the fact that Scotland owns the oil fields answer the economic problem, at least while everyone still wants oil? (not rhetorical, I haven't seen the numbers & I presume that's what TFA and its sequels aim to address, among other things).

I don't think it's a fact - this article[1] explains a lot of the complications around ownership. Currently it's taxed as part of the UKCS (UK Continental Shelf) and assignments of operation are part of the North Sea Transition Authority (NSTA)[2] which doesn't consider any particular region of the UK as owners, but as part of a whole regional area instead.

[1]: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-200... [2]: https://www.nstauthority.co.uk/

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#345

Post by fennecfoxen »

osullivj wrote: post #155
cstross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For non-UK people: There are four nations in the UK (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). But England has roughly 90% of the population of the UK. So what England votes for in an all-nations referendum, the rest of the UK gets. England voted for Brexit by a narrow-ish majority. But Scotland voted against Brexit by a huge margin -- 62/38, or approximately 3:2. Ironically, the year before the Brexit referendum…

Northern Ireland is not a nation. Ireland is a nation with four provinces: Ulster, Leinster, Munster and Connaught. Six of Ulster's nine counties are part of the UK, and the other three are part of the Repulblic of Ireland.

More directly, Northern Ireland is where the king of the English nation once sent the peoples of England to colonize the lands of the Irish nation. These peoples thus settled have remained culturally distinct as the favored elites of the ruling colonial power, and are presently the majority in the area, which is why the area did not join with greater Ireland during Irish independence.

The people of Northern Ireland today tend to want either continued union with the kingdom ruling Great Britain, or union with the rest of Ireland — depending whether their families are of British origin or Irish. The thought of post-Brexit passport control and customs for travel between the territories comprising Northern Ireland and either Great Britain or Ireland is thus a major political football (far worse in the case of the border with Ireland, because it is a land border and that requires walls.)

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#346

Post by kibwen »

synu wrote: post #238
mnw21cam wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason for the "once in a generation" promise is that it is widely recognised that holding regular referenda on non-reversible decisions biases in favour of the non-reversible option. Let's imagine for example that genuinely 55% of the population want to remain part of the UK, and so remaining should win given a completely fair and accurate measure of the population's mood. However, every measurement varies for a…

Does the UK really run these kind of referendum based on a simple 50% majority? That seems like a recipe for chaos (if true).

Brexit passed with 51.89% of the vote, so apparently.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#347

Post by andybak »

brnt wrote: post #281
carnitine wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say post-Brexit England has drifted away from the far right. The whole EDL/Britain First/UKIP sentiment has only waned massively since then. The ruling government has not come close to far right at any point.

Overton window in action: the far right is the new normal, so the old far right isn't necessary anymore. New 'parties' will soon aim to achieve another shift.

For the sake of balance see my other reply on this topic. ;-)

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#348

Post by mantas »

ben_w wrote: post #318
mantas wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when is dealing with illegal migration under coverage of refugees „far right“?

As I understand it — IANAL — the asylum seekers which the UK is sending to Rwanda, are actually allowed under international law (i.e. treaties the UK has signed) to seek asylum in the UK. Rwanda in particular is an odd choice if you are genuinely concerned about the well-being of people who are fleeing persecution, given the UK government travel advice for its own citizens. It is also a very expensive choice (about t…

It's not expensive if it stops people from faking refugee.

What percentage of asylum seekers in the UK were eligible for asylum?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#349

Post by refurb »

patrickk wrote: post #272
refurb wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they pulling that “it’s zee Russians!” in the UK too? Seems to be a very popular bogeyman all over the Western world.

Seeing as London has been corrupted by Russian money, numerous Russians have been murdered/attempted to be murdered by the Russian state in the UK, and the current PM is the former mayor of London, it’s more than valid to discuss Russian influence in the UK. Further reading: https://amp.theguardian.com/books/2022/mar/21/butler-to-the-...

I mean Canada has been corrupted by Chinese money (see Vancouver home prices recently?) and has a pro-CCP member of the government in British Colombia.

Yet I keep hearing about Russians.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#350

Post by xyzzyz »

cjrp wrote: post #251
mantas wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark's left-wing government is planning to send away asylum seekers too. It's interesting times when protecting borders from illegal immigration is seen as „far right“. It's not „far right“ rising, it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwan...

> protecting borders from illegal immigration Asylum-seeking is not illegal immigration.

They can seek asylum in or from Rwanda then, right? I mean, it’s not like they are trying to immigrate to UK, they are just running for their lives, so safety in Rwanda should be good enough, no?
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