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Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

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Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#11
I'm one of the cofounders of Codecademy. I posted this on Audrey's blog, but I'm posting it here as well. Thanks!

I’m glad you’re learning to code. In fact, I was in the same position a few years ago. Since then, I’ve tried everything - books, college classes, videos and more. For me, and for hundreds of people we’ve talked to, none of these traditional approaches, though useful for learning history or literature, helped it ‘click’ for us in learning to program. My cofounder, Ryan, has spent the past couple of years helping developers at Columbia learn how to apply their theoretical computer science skills to actually programming. He’s taught hundreds of Columbia students the basics (and beyond).

Before I start, I just want to point out that Codecademy is new. We started working on the project in the middle of August and released it a few weeks later. The money we raised is not just a show of support for what we have - it’s a sign that people are excited about the future.

I’ve been very upfront with everyone we’ve spoken to so far about what you can learn on Codecademy. At the moment, the “Getting Started with Programming” course is indeed very basic. It’s meant to show people that programming can be fun. As you said, you won’t come out of one course as an awesome developer (as I can sadly attest). Then again, you won’t come out of a freshman computer science course with the ability to be an awesome developer. It’s a long road, and that’s why developers are a hot commodity nowadays.

We only have three courses up right now. We’re working on hundreds more in other languages and at various skill levels. While you can’t learn the full stack from Codecademy now, you will be able to shortly.

Lastly, our experience has been that the badges and other aspects are a crucial part of the experience we’re creating on Codecademy for most of our users. If you ask most people what stopped them from reading their entire programming book (and we’ve talked to hundreds of people), it’s almost always that they aren’t motivated enough. In school, learning is motivated by report cards and teacher expectations. We hope we can build a motivational experience that pushes anyone to program - not just the stereotypical developer. We’ve made a conscious effort to reach out to underrepresented demographics who are interested in learning to program. You’ll see the fruits of those efforts in coming months.

Above all, we’re open to feedback as we grow. I just hope you’ll look at what we’re doing as a first attempt - not the final one. Please let me know if you have any other feedback.

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#12
post #5

I find this to be incredibly short-sighted. Educational tech pundits are so quick to judge new ways of learning based on the content they have right now . I'm incredibly excited by things like Codecademy (and obviously Khan Academy) because what we're seeing is the very beginning. From the article: "If you were to sit me down in front of a blank IDE and ask me to build something, I wouldn’t have any clue how to begin…

I guess I don't understand the Author's sense of entitlement here. Someone took time to build a tool to help her learn to code, and she found it difficult. Different people learn in different ways. For some (many?), making it fun and adding badges is a way to keep the motivation going when things are confusing. I don't think the Codeacademy guys are trying to build the perfect tool for everyone, they're trying to bui…

What sense of entitlement? She's only expressing that she would like to be easier and clearer. Are these not valid wishes? I did not interpret her text like you at all... Oh well

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#13
post #11

I'm one of the cofounders of Codecademy. I posted this on Audrey's blog, but I'm posting it here as well. Thanks! I’m glad you’re learning to code. In fact, I was in the same position a few years ago. Since then, I’ve tried everything - books, college classes, videos and more. For me, and for hundreds of people we’ve talked to, none of these traditional approaches, though useful for learning history or literature, he…

Great response. Anyone using your site today and thinking that it is close to being the finished product... well, presumably they've never been in a startup office and looked at the massive roadmap of features, ideas, entire new sites, etc., scrawled on a big whiteboard.

I've had a play with codecademy and I think it is a promising start. As someone who fairly quickly falls asleep whenever I have to read or watch videos for extended periods of time, this sort of (guided) learning-by-doing definitely appeals.

Of course, education is fiendishly difficult to do well at scale, and you are definitely right to be focusing on what motivates people to learn... However, I don't envy you having to figure out what are the best bits to adopt from the sum of all the research done in this area!

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#14
post #4

I am kind of surprised by this, especially given all of the positive comments. It took Audrey's post to make me realize that if I were reading HN, a lot of those positive comments would be, well..technical people. So now I'm torn. My girlfriend is a graphic designer who wants to learn to code, and I'll probably have her give CodeAcademy a shot. And then maybe CodeSchool, since I have a subscription. How have the non-…

Did you mean Codecademy or CodeAcademy? They are very different things.

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I don't understand the Author's sense of entitlement here. Someone took time to build a tool to help her learn to code, and she found it difficult. Different people learn in different ways. For some (many?), making it fun and adding badges is a way to keep the motivation going when things are confusing. I don't think the Codeacademy guys are trying to build the perfect tool for everyone, they're trying to bui…

What sense of entitlement? She's only expressing that she would like to be easier and clearer. Are these not valid wishes? I did not interpret her text like you at all... Oh well

I think she's expressing her desire for it to be even more in depth. Not necessarily easier and clearer. Founder said it's coming though :)

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#16
post #4

I am kind of surprised by this, especially given all of the positive comments. It took Audrey's post to make me realize that if I were reading HN, a lot of those positive comments would be, well..technical people. So now I'm torn. My girlfriend is a graphic designer who wants to learn to code, and I'll probably have her give CodeAcademy a shot. And then maybe CodeSchool, since I have a subscription. How have the non-…

I taught myself to code (HTML, CSS, and a small amount of PHP — Wordpress) while I was doing a Graphic Design ND. I think the hardest part for me, like Audrey, was trying to understand what a lot of the terms mean and also the concepts behind them. I distinctly remember following a basic HTML & CSS tutorial and not being able to work out how to get the CSS to style the HTML. The example code worked fine, but the rela…

I find myself saying this a lot and I mean no offense but HTML and CSS aren't code. If you can't build a binary search and sort then it doesn't count ;)

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#17
post #11

I'm one of the cofounders of Codecademy. I posted this on Audrey's blog, but I'm posting it here as well. Thanks! I’m glad you’re learning to code. In fact, I was in the same position a few years ago. Since then, I’ve tried everything - books, college classes, videos and more. For me, and for hundreds of people we’ve talked to, none of these traditional approaches, though useful for learning history or literature, he…

>>My cofounder, Ryan, has spent the past couple of years helping developers at Columbia learn how to apply their theoretical computer science skills to actually programming. He’s taught hundreds of Columbia students the basics (and beyond).

Take notes, Mr Khan.

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#18
post #4

I am kind of surprised by this, especially given all of the positive comments. It took Audrey's post to make me realize that if I were reading HN, a lot of those positive comments would be, well..technical people. So now I'm torn. My girlfriend is a graphic designer who wants to learn to code, and I'll probably have her give CodeAcademy a shot. And then maybe CodeSchool, since I have a subscription. How have the non-…

I am not a non-CS programmer but when i wanted to take a look at python I just went through Zed Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way. I would recommend that to anyone who wants to start learning programming. Its a no bs approach to programming and emphasizes focus on the right things.

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#19
post #5

I find this to be incredibly short-sighted. Educational tech pundits are so quick to judge new ways of learning based on the content they have right now . I'm incredibly excited by things like Codecademy (and obviously Khan Academy) because what we're seeing is the very beginning. From the article: "If you were to sit me down in front of a blank IDE and ask me to build something, I wouldn’t have any clue how to begin…

I guess I don't understand the Author's sense of entitlement here. Someone took time to build a tool to help her learn to code, and she found it difficult. Different people learn in different ways. For some (many?), making it fun and adding badges is a way to keep the motivation going when things are confusing. I don't think the Codeacademy guys are trying to build the perfect tool for everyone, they're trying to bui…

This "business" launched, it made a claim, and it failed to deliver. Simple. Who cares if it's a startup or well established business. A customer arrived at the business based on the claim, they had a poor experience, and now they expressing a need for improvement. Is that still allowed these days?

It's good to hear Zach's commitment to advancement, and we're all looking forward to it, but the Author is spot on.

Re: Codecademy and the Future of (Not) Learning to Code

#20
post #3

i mostly agree with this. the way you learn how to code is the same way you learn anything else: by doing it. that is, you want to know so bad that you try to do it or someone forces you to do it. that's 80% of the battle. mentorship, tools, and pedagogy (and badges!) probably make up the other 20% of the battle, though. codeacademy fits there. i don't know if what they have is effective or not, but surely they are s…

But learn-it-yourself is not the way you "learn anything else". There are almost no other professions where this is the case. Surgeons and lawyers aren't expected to learn on their own. The fact that software engineers are expected to do so seems crazy to me -- and potentially dangerous.
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