Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag • Hacker News Board

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#61

Post by phamilton » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:32 AM UTC

Zak wrote: post #26

Ubuntu used to be Debian that just worked. Now it's trying to be something more, but it seems to have lost the "just works" part. When I tried 11.10, I had problems with several of the desktop environments crashing or being very visibly broken. I had poor graphics performance. I had no suspend/resume. All of these things worked on the same computer a year ago. I think Ubuntu may be trying to move too fast. Moving fas…

My biggest problem with Ubuntu is that it seems like you can treat it like Debian, but you can't. I don't know how many times I've updated files in /etc and had them rewritten by the Ubuntu specific GUIs without me knowing it.

I almost want Ubuntu to either abandon the traditional Debian subsystem or have a "Power User" configuration where you can tell it to use /etc files over the GUI config.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#62

Post by methodin » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:39 AM UTC

I really don't agree with this sentiment at all. There are infinite Linux distros out there to play with that are more inline with power users. Ubuntu is for a completely different crowd so what would be the point of just merging into that nexus? The world doesn't need another power-user Linux distro. It needs a Linux distro that isn't painful to use for the regular people.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#63

Post by devmach » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:41 AM UTC

I think, the problems with the Ubuntu are :

1- They think users are plan stupid so they have to decide what's good for users.

2- They're just copying from Apple, don't think about why apple did like that. This will end up with a mess. When i use my friend's mac, i think "this thing can't be better" and then when i use ubuntu with unity all i can think is "What the fk they were thinking ?"

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#64

Post by EGreg » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:42 AM UTC

Why encourage users to be developers at the EXPENSE of things that "just work"?

When I think of a Linux I should install just to get things done, I think of Ubuntu. The more it positions itself that way, the more it will get users. The GPL and free software culture should take care of the rest. It is the responsibility of developers to build an ecosystem for themselves, because they know how to do it.

Don't you guys see this is why Linux's marketshare has been so small for now? If you don't like Ubuntu, by the way, there are always other Linux distros. You're welcome to install Slackware. On my server, I run CentOS. Why can't there be ONE linux distro that regular people can use without reading a manual?

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#65

Post by cmars232 » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:43 AM UTC

I've simply come to accept that Unity is not for 'us', in the way that ipad is not for 'us'. I install xubuntu instead.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#66

Post by phamilton » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

ricardobeat wrote: post #28

I think he has no idea what he's talking about. Being user-friendly doesn't mean abandoning developers or locking up the platform. He's just another "power user" upset because his old tricks are no longer useful.

The old tricks don't need to go away. Tricks should work across all distributions. Especially across Debian based distributions.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#67

Post by vacri » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

If people want a different linux experience to Ubuntu's offering, they're in luck, there are hundreds: http://distrowatch.com/

Ubuntu has specifically stated that they're aiming for the layperson, not the power user. If you cut your teeth on ubuntu and want more power in your linux box... try out another distro.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#68

Post by gbog » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:46 AM UTC

jasonkostempski wrote: post #15

div wrote: post #2

I don't really understand what the author is trying to say. Granted, it's been a while since I used Ubuntu, but as a developer I mainly live in my editor and terminal. Anything I ever wanted is just an apt-get away and is mostly installed in a sensible way. Ubuntu simplifying desktop features and changing defaults to be easier for users like my mom sounds like a great thing to happen to Linux. That stuff is mostly or…

I agree that they should come up with a nice default user friendly setup but they MUST also allow the user to toggle on/off the bits of fluff they want or don't want and they shouldn't have to search Google to figure out how. Also, they have to do fancy animations right, if they're consistently choppy they are no longer a positive feature. My machine runs Windows 7 with all the fluff smoothly, they need to hit that p…

I suppose I'm the only one to have thought about fancy animations as positive feature. First line in my install logs for Linux or windows: rm animations

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#69

Post by Groxx » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:48 AM UTC

ashishgandhi wrote: post #50

> Given the growing lockdown of Apple’s systems I see that kind of stuff said from time to time. But I don't quite understand. How is it growing? And people talk about it (App Store) as if it's terribly evil of Apple but it's okay when it gets done on say a Xbox.

I came to say that too. If anything, it keeps decreasing - the first app-capable iOS devices had no app store, and the barrier to entry for programming on either system keeps dropping (the SDKs and even the IDEs are free, for instance). The only claim I can see is the emergence of the OSX App Store - big shocker there, given the success on iOS - but that hasn't resulted in a lockdown of regular installs, and I doubt it will.

As to the XCode-is-required claim, that's been false for a very long time - their GCC is open source, and has been for years. It has only recently become easy though, I'll grant that.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#70

Post by pak » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:49 AM UTC

methodin wrote: post #62

I really don't agree with this sentiment at all. There are infinite Linux distros out there to play with that are more inline with power users. Ubuntu is for a completely different crowd so what would be the point of just merging into that nexus? The world doesn't need another power-user Linux distro. It needs a Linux distro that isn't painful to use for the regular people.

Exactly. I think the statement "Linux users are power users," which is the premise underlying most of the OP, is too narrow-minded. The whole spirit of GNU/Linux is that anybody who wants to use it, can do so without restriction--power user, developer, third-world student, hacker, artist. That ethos is primary to any claim that Linux has to follow Unix philosophies or any particular UI guidelines. And it is exactly what has spawned and continues to nurture a healthy diversity of distros. Just because Ubuntu has gone in one direction means very little for Linux as a whole; some would argue that their direction is an important one, and time will tell. Certainly the work that Canonical does on usability and basics like driver support will be available for other distros to cherry pick as appropriate. The blunt answer to the OP is "if Canonical no longer serves your needs, just install one of the hundreds of other distros."