An Elephant Burial • Hacker News Board

Re: An Elephant Burial

#21

Post by zvikara » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 12:53 AM UTC

CMartucci wrote: post #14

Tichy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the whatblag owner did not know about the elephant shooting before, he probably does now.

Yes, now I know. I could've sworn my domain was registered with Media Temple, however. I transferred it 6 months ago. Taking care of that now. At any rate, I'm sure we all understand that guilt by association is a gross logical fallacy, and that I in no way endorse the killing of elephants. This must be what it feels like to be a politician...

I was not blaming you at anything as I know most people are not aware of that incident. I transferred my Go Daddy domains as soon as I heard about it and so I thought you would probably like to do the same, considering the subject of your posting.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#22

Post by srean » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 12:55 AM UTC

someperson wrote: post #18

I wonder how much of this is due to the elephant having been shot (as opposed to being killed by a more comprehensible form of injury). The group of animals may have minimal contact with guns and not understand what happened. From the herds perspective, they successfully escaped from the scary humans who made loud sounds but one elephant suddenly just toppled over after they escaped. Confused they try to get her to h…

Elephants share strong emotional ties with family members. From well documented behavior it is also very likely that they have an understanding of death (and birth) as well.

You can read this report about how a herd tried to protect a baby elephant that had got stuck in the railway track. The other elephants tried to block the train, possibly aware that the would be grievously injured. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/8021988/Seven-elep...

This area has witnessed quite a few elephant deaths over the years, on an average, five elephants are killed every year here. Elephants have been run over by trains when their herds have in the process of crossing the tracks. Usually a single animal is hit. Lone elephants who have lost their mate have also been documented to attack railway engines. This is a behavior that's not been seen prior to these elephant accidents.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#23

Post by zvikara » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 1:03 AM UTC

wnight wrote: post #20

zvikara wrote: post #2

Too bad whatblag.com is registered at Go Daddy, where the CEO participated in the shooting and killing of an elephant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Daddy#Animal_rights

Do you eat meat?

Yes I do. Like most people I do have some moral issues about it but consider it as a necessary evil. I do object to hunting as a sport, especially when endangered species are involved.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#24

Post by logjam » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 1:07 AM UTC

wnight wrote: post #20

zvikara wrote: post #2

Too bad whatblag.com is registered at Go Daddy, where the CEO participated in the shooting and killing of an elephant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_Daddy#Animal_rights

Do you eat meat?

You are attempting to use "tu quoque", a rather silly logical fallacy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Re: An Elephant Burial

#25

Post by njloof » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 1:32 AM UTC

JoachimSchipper wrote: post #9

_grrr wrote: post #6

That mammals other than humans are capable of emotion and concious thought comes as no surprise to me. Why some humans derive pleasure from inflicting unnecessary cruelty towards other beasts I will never understand.

Really? People like feeling powerful, that's reason enough. I'm well aware that it's a rhetoric question, but do try to understand why people do evil. Declaring them insane does not help you stop it. (Also, there is no indication that anyone derived pleasure from unnecessary cruelty in this article.)

I assume he was referring to the poachers.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#26

Post by wnight » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:20 AM UTC

zvikara wrote: post #23

wnight wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you eat meat?

Yes I do. Like most people I do have some moral issues about it but consider it as a necessary evil. I do object to hunting as a sport, especially when endangered species are involved.

A case might be made for a few ounces of fish oil being beneficial, but to call meat necessary is intentional blindness.

And eating it because you like it is about like shooting it because it'd look nice stuffed. Sport and vanity.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#27

Post by wnight » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:27 AM UTC

logjam wrote: post #24

wnight wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you eat meat?

You are attempting to use "tu quoque", a rather silly logical fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Technically, any fallacy is silly.

But no, I wasn't attempting to use a fallacy in support of killing elephants. I was flat-out pointing out that his stance on some killing is hypocritical.

I agree that shooting the elephant was a dick move. I'd just go so far as to extend that to chickens.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#28

Post by logjam » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 2:52 AM UTC

wnight wrote: post #27

logjam wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are attempting to use "tu quoque", a rather silly logical fallacy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Technically, any fallacy is silly. But no, I wasn't attempting to use a fallacy in support of killing elephants. I was flat-out pointing out that his stance on some killing is hypocritical. I agree that shooting the elephant was a dick move. I'd just go so far as to extend that to chickens.

I agree that killing for sport and eating meat are both unnecessary, do harm healthwise on an individual and social scale, and produce much suffering in the world.

Re: An Elephant Burial

#29

Post by gujk » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 5:08 AM UTC

burgerbrain wrote: post #4

Fascinating stuff. Is anybody familiar with the amount of ritual usually needed by archaeologists to suggest that some sort of religious tendancies might be present in a particular group of ancient hominids? The possibility that elephants could have some sort of rudimentary religious thoughts would be a great breakthrough I think. Burial itself is mentioned here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_religion

According to Sid Meier's Civilization, civilization starts at ceremonial burial (and mining and road building, but I think that is just to help with game mechanics)

Re: An Elephant Burial

#30

Post by willyt » Sun, Oct 30, 2011, 11:48 AM UTC

I think this kind of acknowledgement of consequences behaviour has been documented in other higher mammals too. I read a really interesting article in the New Scientist years ago about study that showed there was cultural knowledge in a particular troupe(?) of Bonobos in Japan. They would teach thier young to wash fruit in the river before eating it and as a result this particular troupe suffered from significantly lower rates of disease than other surrounding troupes. I'll try and find it and submit the link, I think it might be behind a paywall though.