Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed • Hacker News Board

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#201

Post by manquer » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:23 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #133

manquer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Texas ? Likely not. we are here in this debate over and over after columbine, sandy hook and countless others because there is strong minority who either don’t care or believe gun freedom is worth the cost. I don’t think uvalde is going to change that overnight

They were talking about taking the police to task for cowardice or incompetence, not running for gun control.

I misread that, the point is still the same though, Police reformation[1] is even more murky in terms of support than gun control, proposals for changing qualified immunity, national background check for officers, privatization, use of force , no knock warrants have gone nowhere for the most part.

[1] What defund the police really is or should be about

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#202

Post by kingcharles » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:27 PM UTC

hibern8 wrote: post #52

kingcharles wrote: post #16

I'm a serial litigator of Freedom of Information requests. The reason I have to even litigate is because the public bodies believe every tiny thing they do is not disclosable. I'm about 6 years into one lawsuit to disclose the contents of a jail Policy and Procedures manual. The AG ruled that it was all subject to disclosure except the bits about locks and keys and where the weapons are stored. The jail is free to ig…

Thank you for your work. How is the jail able to ignore the AG ruling?

The AG's legal team in Illinois can issue binding or non-binding rulings. So, even though they gave a detailed legal breakdown of their ruling and why it applied, and (bless them) having read through the entire 800 page manual, they still only issued a non-binding ruling which the Sheriff's office just laughed at.

For some reason they only issue binding rulings in a tiny fraction of very contentious cases. It sucks. It doesn't make any sense to me. It can take two years to get a non-binding ruling on a case just for the public body to ignore it.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#203

Post by AmVess » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:28 PM UTC

ncmncm wrote: post #176

maybelsyrup wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But nothing here will change. It's hard but it's important to keep faith, and to keep working to change people's minds about police. Even your comment can make a difference: a place like HN is full of intelligent people who generally come here fairly open minded. Maybe your comment - the top one right now - can open someone's eyes to what cops really are. Stay in the fight!

What would be a reasonable outcome? Firing all of the current PD staff seems like a great first step. Trick is, do you hire more in their place, and how do you pick them?

In the case of Uvalde police, fire them all and cancel their pensions. Then have the gap in law enforcement covered by state troopers.

Finally, you bring each and every one of them up on any charges that can be filed against them.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#204

Post by kingcharles » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:31 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #76

kingcharles wrote: post #16

I'm a serial litigator of Freedom of Information requests. The reason I have to even litigate is because the public bodies believe every tiny thing they do is not disclosable. I'm about 6 years into one lawsuit to disclose the contents of a jail Policy and Procedures manual. The AG ruled that it was all subject to disclosure except the bits about locks and keys and where the weapons are stored. The jail is free to ig…

Out of curiosity, how is it that you came to be part of HN? Always good to have posters here who aren’t engineers or other tech workers.

I'm actually a developer for pretty much the last 40 years :) I ended up in a county jail due to some mental health issues, and my coding slowed down in there so I needed a new hobby. I put all my energy 24/7 into trying to get the detainees all the rights they were entitled to. A lot of that was trying to get information to prove the terrible things that the Sheriff's office was doing.

Public bodies definitely need to be careful about what they write in emails. It's funny to read about how yourself in their internal emails and what they are planning for you.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#205

Post by ncmncm » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:33 PM UTC

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #199

ncmncm wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a reasonable outcome? Firing all of the current PD staff seems like a great first step. Trick is, do you hire more in their place, and how do you pick them?

No one seems willing to say it out loud, but the reason we can't fire all the police at once is that they will retaliate by looting and killing civilians. This was one of the mistakes the US made after invading iraq, and also a problem the roman empire kept running into in its later years.

Alternative: make all the cops give up all their guns. If they won't use them to protect the public, then their only use is to oppress the public.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#206

Post by jmyeet » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:42 PM UTC

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #199

ncmncm wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a reasonable outcome? Firing all of the current PD staff seems like a great first step. Trick is, do you hire more in their place, and how do you pick them?

No one seems willing to say it out loud, but the reason we can't fire all the police at once is that they will retaliate by looting and killing civilians. This was one of the mistakes the US made after invading iraq, and also a problem the roman empire kept running into in its later years.

The threat of violence against the populace they're meant to protect isn't a reason not to disband that police department.

It is however a reason to call in the FBI and, if necessary, deploy the Army so you can make anyone so inclined to rot in a prison cell.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#207

Post by kingcharles » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:45 PM UTC

orzig wrote: post #19

kingcharles wrote: post #16

I'm a serial litigator of Freedom of Information requests. The reason I have to even litigate is because the public bodies believe every tiny thing they do is not disclosable. I'm about 6 years into one lawsuit to disclose the contents of a jail Policy and Procedures manual. The AG ruled that it was all subject to disclosure except the bits about locks and keys and where the weapons are stored. The jail is free to ig…

Thank you for your work

No problem. I wish what I didn't wasn't necessary. I'm helping others to try to make changes to the FOIA laws to fix the slew of problems. It's baby steps. It's like hacking - laws are written, the bugs are found, they are fixed, it's just that it takes decades to make the change, unlike coding where it takes 2 minutes to recompile.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#208

Post by kingcharles » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:46 PM UTC

anm89 wrote: post #64

kingcharles wrote: post #16

I'm a serial litigator of Freedom of Information requests. The reason I have to even litigate is because the public bodies believe every tiny thing they do is not disclosable. I'm about 6 years into one lawsuit to disclose the contents of a jail Policy and Procedures manual. The AG ruled that it was all subject to disclosure except the bits about locks and keys and where the weapons are stored. The jail is free to ig…

I really think this is one of the single most valuable things someone can do in our society. Thanks

It's one of the best ways to keep a government honest. The people own the government, therefore they should know what the government is doing in their name. I hate governments keeping secrets from me, especially when they are doing it simply in the name of control and power.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#209

Post by Red_Leaves_Flyy » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #199

ncmncm wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be a reasonable outcome? Firing all of the current PD staff seems like a great first step. Trick is, do you hire more in their place, and how do you pick them?

No one seems willing to say it out loud, but the reason we can't fire all the police at once is that they will retaliate by looting and killing civilians. This was one of the mistakes the US made after invading iraq, and also a problem the roman empire kept running into in its later years.

The National guard is adequately equipped, trained and funded to put down an armed revolt of obese and unemployed police larpers.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#210

Post by encryptluks2 » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #174

encryptluks2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like a lesser degree of manslaughter. If they prevented people from entering that could have saved lives.

Even for negligent manslaughter, that would require a "specific duty" to act, which police officers do not have towards individuals unless there is a special prior arrangement in place.

Not if they prevented parents or someone else from entering who could have saved lives. It would be hard for them to argue they don't have a specific duty but can prevent other people from fulfilling that duty.