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FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

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181–190 of 299 posts

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#181
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shielding people from the actual prices does raise the actual prices typically.

Yet somehow market driven healthcare is almost universally more expensive, it’s like there are some monopolistic effects involved. For example several attempts to privatize the VA failed because of the vast increase in costs.

I have experience with the VA system. It's an absolute sham. Privatizing it would absolutely increase costs, because then people would actually been seen, let alone treated, for their conditions.

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#182
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Markets can work fine with inelastic demand if there is adequate information, freedom of choice and proper regulations.

More like, could than can as far as I can see. Markets kick ass under certain circumstances, but in some areas it's almost impossibly hard to achieve those circumstances.

My point is that I don't think the inelasticity of demand is why the healthcare markets work so poorly.

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#183
post #4
post #2

Interesting. I'd like to see more action against the financialization of many other industries / domains, like healthcare and even housing, that I feel are not well served by a purely-market driven perspective. One wonders what the Private Equity firm's intention was here.

There's a number of these where there's a desire to make it appear there is competition, but actually all are owned by the same conglomerate. I would be 0% surprised if similar things haven't been done or tried in optometry, dentists, etc.

Starbucks owns a bunch of “independent” shops

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner works in this industry and in fact has friends that are affected by this merger. While the FTC can and does have the ability to do many things simultaneously, the current situation in the vet industry is dire . Corporate vets are more profitable (through price-gouging), have a virtual stranglehold on increasingly limited labor pools, and are pretty much the only ones that can afford to invest in specialty…

Emergency vets in many places will demand you pay $5,000 upfront (within minutes before surgery is performed) or your pet dies. Then, your pet will die anyway. It is a sad and exploitative industry.

As someone who knows emergency vets, you have no idea what you're talking about and this is incredibly offensive. Vets don't go into veterinary care to get rich. They get into it because they care deeply about animals.

If your dog is bleeding out or not breathing, nobody is going to sit there waiting for you to swipe your card; they're going to try to at least stabilize your dog, and then talk to you about diagnostic options and so on. Emergency vets charge an up-front diagnostic fee and anything that is not "your pet will die if we don't act right now" has to be pre-paid.

There are no government funded veterinary clinics.

There is no legal right to emergency medical care for pets.

There is no government agency guaranteeing the vet ER gets paid if the owner isn't able to, or simply refuses. Debt collectors typically pay out a fraction of any debt they agree to collect...assuming the ER can even identify them. ER vets can't put liens on your property like hospitals can.

Most pets are not insured, and frankly pet insurance is a ripoff. Lots of exclusions and a lightning-fast "prior condition" reaction is how they avoid payouts. It's not regulated because in America, we don't Do That Sort Of Thing (no step on business snek, as business snek regulated by free market!)

Emergency medical care for humans is the most expensive kind of medical care there is. For one species, one usually able to communicate at least on some level.

Now imagine all that, multiplied by multiple species. Equipment, a pharmacy, and staff able to care for patients of almost any size, multiple species, of wildly variable temperament, who have nearly no ability to communicate or participate in their care. And who have an evolutionary drive to hide injury and pain, usually.

Part of the reason ER vet care is so expensive is because they do not "demand you pay" while your pet bleeds out or sits there on the table not breathing...and when people inevitably don't pay (in part because they're people like you who shout "well my dog died anyway, why should I pay you!?"). That has to get amortized over all the people who do pay.

The vast majority of pets that end up in the ER are dogs, and the vast majority of those are in the ER from getting hit by cars, into fights with other dogs, or poisoned/obstructed by things they ate - most of the time because they were not on a leash.

What do you expect ER vets to do? Who pays to keep the lights on? The massive pharmacy stocked? The staff trained? The imaging equipment working?

The magical pretend emergency animal care fairy?

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Fed not a monopoly on your FIAT American Note? Just because they have "12 independent 'Member Banks'? You're understanding of a monopoly is outdated. Plus, you're likely to knee-jerk with a "Thats not the defenition of a monopoly!" Cool get all semantic on the third grade defenition of an insanely nuanced issue. Monopoly in the dictionary sense is the same as a fucking sound-bite from the news on a highly comp…

Yes, the Fed is a sanctioned quasi-governmental monopoly, just like the police or the taxman is. You'll note that "the Fed" was not in your original list. Also, definition is spelled definition.

Good luck arguing with someone who says "FIAT" as if that's the ace up their sleeve.

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#186
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there are no smaller vets. Or they suck equally hard, there’s no guarantee that being smaller == better.

Well, the above post said the cop vets were price gouging. If the local vets are price gouging too, then it seems to have nothing to do with corporate ownership.

Local clinics pay higher rates for supplies (few economies of scale) and depending on the practice, often do quite a lot of charity on the side. There are private practices that compete with the corps on margin, but they're relatively rare to my knowledge.

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#188

The only answer to this issue (and make no mistake, its happening in medical care for humans too) is to not restrict conpetition. With yields so low, and the stock market still above 2019 highs, PE firms are diving into the few areas of the economy where there is value due to lack of competition and it is also not completely overheated. However, take out the permit and licensing requirements and you would plummet PE…

> However, take out the permit and licensing requirements Remove permitting, licensing, and educational requirements from people selling surgical procedures for animals? No thanks. I don't actually see occupational licensing as a bottleneck for a job that requires significant education and training to do properly anyway We don't have a backlog of veterinarians out there who completed all of their years of training bu…

> We also don't really want amateurs vets opening up clinics and just winging it with people's pets.

In a couple decades, people will be saying this about to fresh veterinary school graduates who want to open their own hospital instead of joining one of the conglomerate private equity firms.

We don't have a backlog of trained unlicensed veterinarians because it's the training that's the bottleneck. You could be the most ambitious person in the world but if you don't get into vet school then that door is closed. You can't get a license if you don't go to an accredited institution.

I wouldn't get rid of the license requirement, but I would definitely change it to something that is not rate-limited by the number of available vet school seats per year. Imagine if drivers licenses were handed out the same way, if each DMV only offered the mandatory prerequisite training to 500 people per year and nobody else was allowed to drive. Driving would become an elite institution too, and we'd be complaining that it's better that way because nobody trusts amateur drivers operating these several-thousand lb machines.

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what do you mean? That's exactly capitalism, it favors inequality heavily. The Vet made it to the top of the heap, and is now utilizing the PA as an exploitable workforce. Tech example, BigCo A gets first mover advantage, equally good BiggishCo B is a bit behind (for whatever reason), BigCo A leverages their position to prevent B from being able to compete long term - usually by acquisition, they work for us now.

It's not capitalism because a licensing cartel artificially keeps the supply of vets low by keeping out qualified PAs and nurses who could handle easy cases.

[deleted]

Re: FTC acts against private equity firm’s acquisition of veterinary clinics

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emergency vets in many places will demand you pay $5,000 upfront (within minutes before surgery is performed) or your pet dies. Then, your pet will die anyway. It is a sad and exploitative industry.

>It is a sad and exploitative industry. What an insulting, belittling comment. I don't know why you think veterinarians are charities, and don't know why feel entitled to pay people less than they're worth. Veterinarians hold doctorates. Four years of undergrad, four years of vet school. Many emergency vets are board certified, meaning they've done an additional 3+ years in internships and residencies. In running a p…

So many HNers are libertarian right up until it concerns something they need.

Then it's "why do I have to pay for that!?"

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