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An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

unprepared.life

31–38 of 38 posts

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#31
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with). Could you entertain us with more detail on what you mean here? Germany's atrocities are well documented across Europe ( and North Africa). The Soviets had nothing to do with Drancy or Bergen-Belsen for instance. We know of the Auschwitz horrors through…

[flagged]

> Actual Nazi records are still largely classified and still selectively being released obviously after destroying counter-narrative ones.

A lot of Nazi records are public. And so are the records of a lot of the occupied countries. Including mundane details like how much SNCF and Deutsche Bahn billes per "passenger" ( of course usually in cattle/cargo cars), and the amounts. We also have ample witness testimony, and video and photographic footage from the various camps, be they concentration, extermination or transit ( which were in occupied countries and often were managed by the local collaborationist government).

> The second world war was a biological war with typhus as the primary weapon. All of "holocaust" was Germany trying to quarantine and treat the infection... which is why SS doctors were at the frontline of it all. They still lost millions of people. The most affected were low hyegine communities who did not listen to government recommendations

If it was a biological war, where did the typhus come from? And why were people "quarantined" to starvation/exhaustion from work from faraway places likes jews from Netherlands transferred to Auschwitz?

> but the 6 million number is downright retarded if you look at the population records.

6 million is for the jews only, there's an additional 2 million Roma, Sinthy, disabled, gays, etc. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of POWs.

> You can fabricate any story if you get to kill everyone who disagrees with it and that is exactly what the Soviet and American forces did.

Who was killed that disagreed with the story? And how do you think did the Americans, Soviets and all occupied countries get to the same story? Especially countries like Yugoslavia which liberated themselves and were neutral post-WW2? And why do we have stories from people who managed to escape telling of the horrors?

Also, if i might bring your attention to the words of the perpetrators themselves - none of them denied anything. You can go and watch a full recording of the trial of Adolf Eichmann if you want to. You can read the testimony from Nuremberg. You can watch the footage, including of freed inmates, from when the camps were liberated.

And of course you can go and visit any of the camp sites. I've been to Dachau and it's... powerful.

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. Because 1. there's support networks for them, and 2. they don't have the resources themselves. The "white upperclass male" has the resources to do harm, and don't get supported . I keep thinking of Elliot Rodgers, who had a thought that girls owed it to him to date him. I don't think any of that was because he was white, male, or upper class. It was because h…

Many people are lonely, but only some of them shoot up little kids. Hell, I'd say most kids are bullied in some way or another at some point during their journey through school! It is important to reach out to all teens and address bullying for a multitude of reason, but the narrative of a misfit loner is just that, a narrative that most often falls apart during the investigation into the shooter's background. Elliot…

> This is behavioral issue, not a mental health issue

I agree completely. And you're right on the Elliot Rogers part, I'm sorry that I wasn't quite clear on that. The issue was 100% the thought of being "owed" something.

Perhaps trying to put another way: He thought he was owed something because he felt that he fit some profile of a young, handsome, gentleman, who's a son of an actor, and life doesn't follow scripts.

My point is that if we keep saying "young white males have it all" when they don't, they will start to think "well why don't I feel complete, if I have it all?" - it's a genuine question. I think the answer is that we need to stop demonising "straight white males" lest they become demons*.

I'm not saying that they don't fit the profile. I'm saying that it's not because they are white and male. Black males fit a distinctive criminal perpetrator profile as well, but it's not due to being black. You can't have one without the other. Either you believe this is due to their race or not.

* I just recently had a newborn daughter, and my mother-in-law said something along these lines: whatever I call her: "princess", "monster", etc. is what she will become.

I think it's the same thing here: the more we demonise and stigmatise "straight white males" the more there's going to be a lash back from young males who don't feel like they have the power you claim they have, yet.

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#33
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the negativity? > Sure, nobody remembers Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Mao etc. What is this guy smoking? I'm pretty sure the author used the word "remembered" in the sense of "recognized" or "admired". Could they have chosen a more precise word? Yes, but to me it is clear what they mean.

Hitler is recognized and admired by many. If the change in world order happens when his significance is still fresh, he will surface back as a universally admired figure because it is not very difficult to piece together what the Nazi regime actually did vs what the Soviet occupiers accused them of (and what the US went along with).

Please ELI5: what did the Nazi regime actually do? What is it about Hitler that warrants universal admiration?

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#34
post #26

This reads well-meaning, but ultimately misdirected. There is no solid data corroborating the "school shooters are bullied" narrative - in fact, many of them have a long history of being bullies themselves, which then gets twisted from "kids try to avoid the weird kid who does disturbing things" into "poor little baby had no friends". Disabled, queer, poor teens are not shooting up schools. The profile of a school sh…

> there is not solid data you sure about your claim? > According to Lee (2013), there are two leading causes of school shootings: bullying (87%), as well as both non-compliance and side effects from psychiatric drugs (12%). Most school shooters claimed or left evidence behind indicating that they were victims of severe and long-term bullying. The majority of bullying victims experienced feelings of humiliation, which…

There was a Reddit thread in recent weeks about a related topic and there were a decent number of bullied males talking about how much they thought about shooting up their school. IMO, it's very possible that it's an intersection of bullied + having the means + propensity (for the most part, aggressive/aggrieved males).

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people are lonely, but only some of them shoot up little kids. Hell, I'd say most kids are bullied in some way or another at some point during their journey through school! It is important to reach out to all teens and address bullying for a multitude of reason, but the narrative of a misfit loner is just that, a narrative that most often falls apart during the investigation into the shooter's background. Elliot…

> This is behavioral issue, not a mental health issue I agree completely. And you're right on the Elliot Rogers part, I'm sorry that I wasn't quite clear on that. The issue was 100% the thought of being "owed" something. Perhaps trying to put another way: He thought he was owed something because he felt that he fit some profile of a young, handsome, gentleman, who's a son of an actor, and life doesn't follow scripts.…

Let me rephrase my thought: shooters do what they do not because they are white and male, because there are plenty white males who don't do it. But we can't deny there is something happening within that demographic that makes it more prone to commit this particular crime.

> My point is that if we keep saying "young white males have it all" when they don't, they will start to think "well why don't I feel complete, if I have it all?"

Not to discount this, but teenage angst has been around for generations. How come young men today decide to shoot their classmates instead of, idk, writing bad poetry or standing under the window of a girl that rejected them, the way their fathers did? I think the main deciding factor is being exposed to a certain brand of toxic masculinity that promotes misogyny and equates violence with power. One of the strongest red flags for mass shooters, leaving depression, bullying, etc etc far behind, is a history of misogynistic behavior and domestic violence.

You can disagree with my interpretation, of course.

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is behavioral issue, not a mental health issue I agree completely. And you're right on the Elliot Rogers part, I'm sorry that I wasn't quite clear on that. The issue was 100% the thought of being "owed" something. Perhaps trying to put another way: He thought he was owed something because he felt that he fit some profile of a young, handsome, gentleman, who's a son of an actor, and life doesn't follow scripts.…

Let me rephrase my thought: shooters do what they do not because they are white and male, because there are plenty white males who don't do it. But we can't deny there is something happening within that demographic that makes it more prone to commit this particular crime. > My point is that if we keep saying "young white males have it all" when they don't, they will start to think "well why don't I feel complete, if…

>Not to discount this, but teenage angst has been around for generations. How come young men today decide to shoot their classmates instead of, idk, writing bad poetry or standing under the window of a girl that rejected them, the way their fathers did?

>I think the main deciding factor is being exposed to a certain brand of toxic masculinity that promotes misogyny and equates violence with power. One of the strongest red flags for mass shooters, leaving depression, bullying, etc etc far behind, is a history of misogynistic behavior and domestic violence.

The forefathers either had enough hope, restraint, or we have simply forgotten of all the times they took emotional decisions. I can't think of anything personally besides some old fiction[0] that would back up the 3rd possibility. The second possibility seems backwards to me, if anything it should be the opposite, modern men would be less inclined to violence towards women, if not, then what benefit did 200+ years of womens activism do? And the first I have no perspective on, but consider the very real chance that young men today unlike their forefathers see no way out (Even if this perspective is only an illusion, it remains very real in their minds), which the original blogpost tries to address by telling them there is a light at the end of the tunnel and offers activities they can do right now.

For the record, most of the people against "toxic masculinity" would classify the standing under the window of the girl that rejected you to be stalking, and an extension of that toxic behavior.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorrows_of_Young_Werther#C...

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is behavioral issue, not a mental health issue I agree completely. And you're right on the Elliot Rogers part, I'm sorry that I wasn't quite clear on that. The issue was 100% the thought of being "owed" something. Perhaps trying to put another way: He thought he was owed something because he felt that he fit some profile of a young, handsome, gentleman, who's a son of an actor, and life doesn't follow scripts.…

Let me rephrase my thought: shooters do what they do not because they are white and male, because there are plenty white males who don't do it. But we can't deny there is something happening within that demographic that makes it more prone to commit this particular crime. > My point is that if we keep saying "young white males have it all" when they don't, they will start to think "well why don't I feel complete, if…

I largely agree with what you're saying. There is something about this demographic and it's getting largely worse, not better. I think most of this is enough feedback that we need to tailor our approach (as in almost put it in 180 from what we have been doing).

The issue with "toxic masculinity" is that only non-toxic men can define it. and everyone has different definitions of what a non-toxic man is.

If i were to suggest what an "ideal role model" is for young men, it would be someone who doesn't drink, who is physically strong, boxes, labours, is capable of causing harm, but chooses not to, and one who isn't prone to loosing it if a girl rejects him.

Others would read my description and recoil in disgust, because they think the ideal man should be one who is romantic and perhaps a writer, and should drop their coat so ladies can walk over puddles, and be well versed in different types of whiskeys, who is incapable of causing harm, but perhaps wants to.

These are really the two ends of what young men have to try and model themselves as, and they do a botched job of it and get called a creep and loser for being a creepy loser. drinking to excess because that's the only socially acceptable thing to do when in large groups.

Perhaps the one thing that we need to train boys in is how to handle rejection properly, maybe that's the missing piece here.

Perhaps society should not encourage the archetype of "incapable of causing harm but wants to" and instead encourage "is able to cause harm, but won't" - like their forefathers were into adventure and war stories of strong heroes, etc.

(these are just thoughts at this point, going from what I know of being a man myself, and what I had to do to grow up.)

Who's to say. Good chat none-the-less. :)

Re: An Open Letter to the Next School Shooter

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me rephrase my thought: shooters do what they do not because they are white and male, because there are plenty white males who don't do it. But we can't deny there is something happening within that demographic that makes it more prone to commit this particular crime. > My point is that if we keep saying "young white males have it all" when they don't, they will start to think "well why don't I feel complete, if…

>Not to discount this, but teenage angst has been around for generations. How come young men today decide to shoot their classmates instead of, idk, writing bad poetry or standing under the window of a girl that rejected them, the way their fathers did? >I think the main deciding factor is being exposed to a certain brand of toxic masculinity that promotes misogyny and equates violence with power. One of the stronges…

> For the record, most of the people against "toxic masculinity" would classify the standing under the window of the girl that rejected you to be stalking, and an extension of that toxic behavior.

Yes, but that is not my point. What I am trying to say that when those young men face hardships, instead of internalizing their response or directing it towards the object of their desire, they somehow decide that the solution to their problem is murdering a bunch of elementary school children. They see themselves as the wronged party against the world, and the way to rectify that injustice is to commit an act of violence against someone who has nothing to do with their troubles.

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