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Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

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Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#21

Post by bongoman37 »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #6
Arrath wrote: post #2

I think the 'weakness' of their response is plainly obvious. If criminals can find advantages in this footage, its an opportunity to overhaul training programs and response plans. The training and response was woefully inadequate for this crisis, after all. There should be no reasonable reality in which the release of this footage is suppressed. This is an undeniable tragedy, battening down the hatches and obstinatel…

They maintained control with minimal personal risk to themselves. From a "policing realism" perspective that's exactly what police do. Preventing or ending any sort of crime or violence is optional at that point, and they opted not to. This is extremely at odds with how the police want to be perceived , and managing that contradiction is certainly their biggest concern right now. From that perspective it's easy to un…

No post body was provided.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#24

Post by SrslyJosh »

threatofrain wrote: post #14
EricE wrote: post #10

It sort of blows up the whole pro gun control argument that citizens shouldn't be expected to have to protect themselves but instead rely on law enforcement :p

People who want weaker and stronger gun control laws can find consensus for the idea that trained police are the most tactically equipped to deal with an ongoing crime, and that you should not interfere with professionals who are already on the scene. 40% of Uvalde's city budget is going to police. The police went in to save their own kids, but detained and chastised parents who went in to do the same. How many more…

If by "chastised" you mean "threatened to tase", yep. They're also retaliating against one woman who went in to save her own kids. IIRC, she's on probation and they're trying to take her kids away now.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#25

Post by kube-system »

johndevor wrote: post #20
threatofrain wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who want weaker and stronger gun control laws can find consensus for the idea that trained police are the most tactically equipped to deal with an ongoing crime, and that you should not interfere with professionals who are already on the scene. 40% of Uvalde's city budget is going to police. The police went in to save their own kids, but detained and chastised parents who went in to do the same. How many more…

Accountability is the issue. If they can tax you by force, they're not going to put themselves in harms way. They already got paid. (Generalization of course, but true in many life-and-death situations.)

Most people won't willingly die at work for any amount of money or accountability, and I don't blame them.

These kinds of situations are outrageous because people want to believe in superheros, but they don't exist.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#26

Post by woodruffw »

phnofive wrote: post #4

I don't think the fifth amendment applies to videotape.

Even if it did: the courts have repeatedly held (to my disdain) that the police are not required to enforce the law. My guess is that they're trying to hedge against the inevitable wave of civil suits against them, which will ultimately compel the release of the bodycam footage. But their hope is to run out the clock on public outrage.

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#27

Post by jjulius »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #6
Arrath wrote: post #2

I think the 'weakness' of their response is plainly obvious. If criminals can find advantages in this footage, its an opportunity to overhaul training programs and response plans. The training and response was woefully inadequate for this crisis, after all. There should be no reasonable reality in which the release of this footage is suppressed. This is an undeniable tragedy, battening down the hatches and obstinatel…

They maintained control with minimal personal risk to themselves. From a "policing realism" perspective that's exactly what police do. Preventing or ending any sort of crime or violence is optional at that point, and they opted not to. This is extremely at odds with how the police want to be perceived , and managing that contradiction is certainly their biggest concern right now. From that perspective it's easy to un…

>They maintained control with minimal personal risk to themselves. From a "policing realism" perspective that's exactly what police do. Preventing or ending any sort of crime or violence is optional at that point, and they opted not to.

Absolutely untrue, and has been for decades. Their hesitation to react and go in is the complete opposite of what they were trained to do, which is go in and eliminate the threat immediately. "The official narrative has shifted from a story of swift response by the local police to one of hesitation and delay that deviated from two decades of training that instructs officers to quickly confront a gunman to save lives, even at a risk to their own."[1]

>These aren't unfortunate dolts who bumbled into a tragic response because they weren't equipped to deal with it.

Except that, from everything we've learned about this event in the weeks since, they literally were not equipped to deal with it. Police chief didn't bring a radio, their own radios didn't work in the school, they bungled getting a key to the room, they didn't have their tactical materials arrive in a timely manner, I can go on and on.

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/09/us/uvalde-shooting-police...

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#29

Post by bitwize »

EricE wrote: post #10

It sort of blows up the whole pro gun control argument that citizens shouldn't be expected to have to protect themselves but instead rely on law enforcement :p

The new argument is "If trained police officers are afraid to engage an active shooter, why should we expect school staff to?"

Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed

#30

Post by branon »

threatofrain wrote: post #14
EricE wrote: post #10

It sort of blows up the whole pro gun control argument that citizens shouldn't be expected to have to protect themselves but instead rely on law enforcement :p

People who want weaker and stronger gun control laws can find consensus for the idea that trained police are the most tactically equipped to deal with an ongoing crime, and that you should not interfere with professionals who are already on the scene. 40% of Uvalde's city budget is going to police. The police went in to save their own kids, but detained and chastised parents who went in to do the same. How many more…

> Should townsfolk have enough guns and force on their side to subdue the police

At any given time, yes.

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