Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021) • Hacker News Board

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#111

Post by walleeee » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

efkiel wrote: post #87

xphos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the source but the navy tried something similar for allowing scuba divers to fill there lungs with oxygen rich liquid I don't think it was perfluorocarbons but the ended canceling the project because while they could oxygenated someone they were unable to exchange out carbon and ultimately the person they experimented on (yes human experiment) died from CO2 toxicity. Id be interested to see how long they…

If I recall correctly, similar experiment have been tried lately, where the subject survive. (maybe because they were shorter than the navy's one) However, the subjects stated afterward that they felt adequately oxygenated, but also were on the verge of panic due to the constant feeling of drowning induce by having your lungs filled with liquid. None of them felt like they would be able to do any kind of productive t…

Peter Watts' Rifters series is premised on the development of this sort of technology for human use and goes into uncomfortable detail about the (false) feeling of drowning

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#112

Post by b112 » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

blowski wrote: post #82

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have no idea how important the microbiome is to their health. At the very least, one should make a "backup" of the microbiome so it can be repopulated later in case something goes pear-shaped. Messing with stuff can cause all kinds of endotoxin / auto-immune issues.

I love the thought that one's gut should have an off-site backup for DR purposes.

Current backups are in close relatives. They'll take a sample of feces from a relative, liquify it and remove solids, and seed your rear end with the results.

Been doing this for decades.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#113

Post by refurb » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 12:52 PM UTC

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #78

dTal wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameron seems to make a big deal of "the rat really survived" (5 rats, in fact), glossing over the fact that the shocking animal cruelty was also real. It's rather hypocritical to pride yourself on the realism of the scene, while cutting all the parts where the rats defecate from panic.

You better not know what else scientists do to rats. And please, don't even start on the argument that they do it for science and not for entertainment. Entertainment in the form of science fiction is crucial for inspiring new generations of scientists.

Scientists don't abuse or cause distress or panic in animals, just FYI. There are very strict rules around it.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#114

Post by martopix » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 12:54 PM UTC

mjlee wrote: post #77

I think the Dutch knew about this back in the late 18th Century - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_smoke_enema It's where the phrase "blow smoke up your arse" comes from.

This isn't related though. The fact that drugs can be absorbed through intestinal mucosa is well known, that's how suppositories work. And it was known in pre-colombian south america too. But here we are talking about oxygen.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#115

Post by virgildotcodes » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 1:34 PM UTC

> To find out, Takanori Takebe, a gastroenterologist from Cincinnati Children's Hospital, and his colleagues tested several approaches to ventilating the intestines of mice and pigs that were deprived briefly of oxygen. In one group of 11 mice, four had their intestines scrubbed to thin the mucosal lining and improve oxygen absorption. Next, the researchers injected pure, pressurized oxygen into the rectums of the scrubbed mice and four of the seven unscrubbed ones.

> Then, the researchers withdrew oxygen from the animals, making them "hypoxic." The three unscrubbed mice that received no intestinal oxygen survived for a median of 11 minutes. Mice with unscrubbed intestines that received oxygen through their anuses lasted 18 minutes. Only the ventilated mice with brushed intestines lived through the hourlong experiment, with a survival rate of 75%, the researchers report today in Med.

This is fucking horrifying.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#116

Post by odrekf » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

dandare wrote: post #97

Anybody else concerned about the ethics of scrubbing intestines, injecting gas into intestines, then suffocation the mammals to death? Are animals in these procedures routinely anaesthetised?

If you eat meat you are probably financing worse things, like sentencing animals to a life in a house of horrors. Eg: piglets have their teeth and tails removed without anesthesia. Many simply die from shock.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Anima...

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#117

Post by Enginerrrd » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 1:53 PM UTC

esauce2849 wrote: post #86

xphos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the source but the navy tried something similar for allowing scuba divers to fill there lungs with oxygen rich liquid I don't think it was perfluorocarbons but the ended canceling the project because while they could oxygenated someone they were unable to exchange out carbon and ultimately the person they experimented on (yes human experiment) died from CO2 toxicity. Id be interested to see how long they…

Any chance of a source on this? People dying during research like this is definitely on the extreme end of things.

Almost everything we know about all the ways diving can kill you comes from the US Navy's experimental diving unit. A lot of people died after they intentionally gave people the bends.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#118

Post by sandworm101 » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

mbrundle wrote: post #2

This reminds me of the scene in The Abyss where the rat is forced to breathe in oxygen-rich perfluorocarbons[1]. I think this idea of introducing oxygen through perfluorocarbons has been explored but not sure it’s made much headway in humans to date [2]. This paper seems like a clever idea to introduce the liquid anally where oxygen can diffuse through the linings, and to also use same liquid (because of its viscosit…

The last I heard, this form of liquid breathing may have use for premature babies. The concept is that their lungs may better handle liquid than air, so long as they don't start breathing air. It would require a respirator that pumps liquid, a tricky practical problem.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#119

Post by ch4s3 » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 2:00 PM UTC

pettycashstash2 wrote: post #70

pazimzadeh wrote: post #51

> Because they are highly dense, perfluorocarbons can also help flush mucus out of the intestine > Introducing oxygen to the intestines would probably kill the microbes involved in digestion Combining these two for any significant amount of time seems like a recipe for microbiota dysbiosis. It would be interesting to somehow determine if most of the oxygen is absorbed in the small or large intestine. Mucus is what ke…

Right, First do no harm

I think if you're going to die from lack of oxygen, then that's the top priority.

Re: Mammals can breathe through their intestines (2021)

#120

Post by sweetheart » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 2:10 PM UTC

odrekf wrote: post #116

dandare wrote: post #97

Anybody else concerned about the ethics of scrubbing intestines, injecting gas into intestines, then suffocation the mammals to death? Are animals in these procedures routinely anaesthetised?

If you eat meat you are probably financing worse things, like sentencing animals to a life in a house of horrors. Eg: piglets have their teeth and tails removed without anesthesia. Many simply die from shock. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensive_animal_farming#Anima...

If only human beings could live long, happy, healthy lives while avoiding animal products!

Oh, wait.

And it's not just meat, either. Milk, cheese, leather, gelatin, etc. We subject billions of animals to truly nightmarish torture and 99% of us don't ever really stop to consider it.