Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

theregister.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 243 posts

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#71

Post by Symbiote »

zbrozek wrote: post #47
bambax wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. It's a vicious circle (or maybe a virtuous one?) but once fuel stations start closing in droves it will become very impractical to own a petrol car.

That cycle will undoubtedly be slower for vehicles than cameras. Much larger, much more expensive population, covering a broader range of niche cases. I think very highly of my EV, but I'm not under the illusion that all fossil fueled vehicles will evaporate quickly. Certainly I expect another 10-15 years out of my 22-year-old truck.

A 22 year old van is already too old to be driven in many European cities.

For example, vans must be manufactured on 1 January 2007 or later to be used in Copenhagen. In July the date will become 1 January 2012 [1].

That doesn't yet apply to cars, and I think the truck counts as a car. It does apply in some cities in Germany, where the limit depends on the fuel -- petrol cars are often limited to 30 years (1992), diesel to 2007.

I expect these regulations to tighten as electric cars become widespread, and the various exemptions to become more stringent.

[1] https://miljoezoner.dk/en/regulations-and-vehicles/regulatio...

And https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#73

Post by neallindsay »

I'm seeing a lot of skepticism in the comments here, but electric cars are already superior to their combustion-driven ancestors in most ways. People want to buy them. (Sales are already limited by how fast car makers can increase manufacturing capacity.) What this will do is mostly limit how long car makers can milk their gas/diesel engine making capability.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#74

Post by CalRobert »

amelius wrote: post #24

Bad news for Ferrari et al.

Ferrari is welcome to produce non-combustion vehicles. If Porsche can upset the purists by making an SUV (it's been a while but there was some outrage about basically getting in to the minivan market) then Ferrari can make an EV.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#75

Post by Epa095 »

dgellow wrote: post #64

If you have a combustion engine and want to change to electric, who will buy it from you? Or how do you get rid of your old car? There will be basically no demand in Europe. Just wondering what will happen to all these existing cars, it’s nice to know new cars will be electric but what are people supposed to do with their current ones? Lot of them won’t be usable in cities due to low-emission zoning policies. Edit: i…

I am willing to bet a beer that it's only for new cars. The article links to a description :

>In a plenary vote on Wednesday, MEPs adopted their position on proposed rules to revise the CO2 emissions performance standards for *new* cars and vans with 339 votes in favour, 249 against and 24 abstentions.

Many of the eu rules for cars are not retroactive. E.g I can use a old car without lighting for the number plate, even though new cars must have light on them.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#76

Post by vetinari »

guiriduro wrote: post #62
toyg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't. In about 5-10 years we will see a big push to delay that deadline, or even quietly shelve it. The industrial sector in particular is nowhere near switching, and they are critical - by and large, distribution relies on rubber, and that rubber is not going to be electric in 10 years time.

Hopefully, forceful policy can ensure it happens before environmental collapse and secondary effects like resource war achieve the same effects in less desirable ways. Fear of the latter should enable policymakers to be more ruthless about the former.

> before environmental collapse

EU has less than 10% share in the CO~2 production. We are not going to make a difference even by going medieval today, and the rest of the world isn't going to care, especially as they will watch us to self-destruct.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#77

Post by phtrivier »

me_me_me wrote: post #17

Environment aside, this is not realistic with just aim to ban combustion engines. You need to fund groundbreaking infrastructural changes at national level. The last mile of logistics channels will not work with mythical electric trucks. Those does not exist because they make no sense. So how are we going to flow all those goods to markets?

Interestingly, the "large-haul trucks" seem to be excluded from the deal (it is discussed separately.) [1]

I would say that the _very last mile_ of delivery (especially inside city centers) is properly covered by EVs (French Postal Service is claiming to have "the largest fleet of EVs in the world" [2].) Those vehicles have predictable routes, reasonnable usage hours, and a relatively small radius of travel; a battery of 100km or range, recharged at night, seems like a good fit.

It's of course _much_ trickier for the kind of trucks that cross over Europe to ship veggies. I would not be surprised if those get to use fossil fuels a bit longer (maybe with higher efficiency requirements, higher proportion of plant-based fuels, incentives to go for H2 even if it does not make _complete_ environement sense, etc...)

[1] https://www.liberation.fr/economie/transports/interdiction-d....

[2] https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2019/04/08/la-poste-...

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#78

Post by notimetorelax »

dgellow wrote: post #64

If you have a combustion engine and want to change to electric, who will buy it from you? Or how do you get rid of your old car? There will be basically no demand in Europe. Just wondering what will happen to all these existing cars, it’s nice to know new cars will be electric but what are people supposed to do with their current ones? Lot of them won’t be usable in cities due to low-emission zoning policies. Edit: i…

I assume people will sell theirs for export to the countries outside of EU. Having bought a new car last year with internal combustion - I'm OK to lose a few thousands by 2035 if this means that there are no more internal combustion cars in use.

The primary reason I bought non-electric car is insufficient infrastructure, bills like this will fix the infrastructure problem.

Edit: to answer the question in the edit. 13 years is enought of heads up for any new cars. I'd expect a pretty significant drop off in new car sales by 2030 as few people would like to be forced to get rid of their 5 year old car by 2035.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#79

Post by crote »

me_me_me wrote: post #17

Environment aside, this is not realistic with just aim to ban combustion engines. You need to fund groundbreaking infrastructural changes at national level. The last mile of logistics channels will not work with mythical electric trucks. Those does not exist because they make no sense. So how are we going to flow all those goods to markets?

The literal last mile is the easiest part, actually. Electric trucks with a range of 300km are already widely available, and that's more than enough for local use.

Besides, in Europe there are pretty stringent rules about driving times already. You need to take a 45-minute break every 4.5 hours, which at 90 kmh is every 400 km. You can split that into a 15-minute break and a 30-minute one, requiring an even shorter range. Meanwhile, Germany is trialing overhead wires on highways, which would allow for an even more reduced range.

The way I see it, the truck isn't the problem: building the charging infrastructure is.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#80

Post by CalRobert »

traveler01 wrote: post #60

People who use private planes to fly around voting on these kind of stuff. Democracy huh...

Now you know how it feels when the government takes your tax money that you earned from a job to which you commuted by bike and gives it to motorists so they can buy EV's that will then clog the city through which you are cycling.

Always someone to blame.... this is a positive step.

Post reply on HN