I started using vim 13 years ago. Editors come. Editors go. Vim remains.
Features also come but not to Vim.
I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
201–210 of 343 posts
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way That's just not true. I have access to the full Jetbrains suite for free, yet I still opt to use Neovim or VS Code/Codium for most languages. Jetbrains IDEs are great in many ways, but are objectively worse on several metrics: * slow startup times * slow initial operations until the JIT is warmed up * even once warm, you always eventually…
I agree with the rest of your points, but keyboard navigation in VSC just blows (or I'm doing something very wrong). It's painfully obvious main VSCode developers must be heavy mouse users because you just can't do some things there without a mouse, or they're really awkward (for example, de-focusing the sidebar requires pressing some weird key combo (I think it's Ctrl+Shift+E or something like that?), while a simple…
> I couldn't find a key combo (or any way to configure it) to navigate between classes and functions in the same file.
That's an interesting use case, it totally makes sense, it's something I don't know I could have, even though I rarely use mouse. I'm just used to Ctrl+Shift+O and search for member names.
I guess that's the real value of a well-designed IDE. It has everything you may find useful and made it discoverable. Once you know such thing exists, you can... https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=mishkinf...
> who in the hell decided to bind "jump to definition" to F12
Well, it's "Visual Studio" Code, and Visual Studio had this keybinding for at least 20 years. I understand that it does not work for you, but there is a reason.
I grew up using zero Macs, so "go to definition" in my brain always map to "F12 as a single key, or gd in normal mode in a modal editor". Oh, and F12 is easily reachable on an US ANSI 104 keyboard.
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#203What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…
I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…
- You can keep your editor with Jetbrains even after the license expires, you just don't get updates.
- They never force you into updates.
- Many of my LaTeX files from 20 years ago don't work anymore unless I go back and go use old versions.
- Your IDE does not modify your source code so your source code stays in an interpretable format.
I agree that you loose the ability to modify and adapt your editor (beyond plugins but that's still pretty limited compared to what you can do with emacs for example)
Using an editor doesn't force you to stay in a relation for life. if Jetbrains turns into a cash cow, I can go use any editor I want. Outside of muscle memory and preference, I have 0 dependency on them.
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. Yeah, no. Don't get me wrong, Jetbrains IDEs are great. But they're not as easy to extend, its proprietary nature makes it hard to debug when writing extensions. I use neovim primarily, but I've got licenses for a bunch of other editors (Nova, Sublime, used to have IntelliJ). I do sincerely tr…
> Yeah, no. Don't get me wrong, Jetbrains IDEs are great. But they're not as easy to extend, its proprietary nature makes it hard to debug when writing extensions. IntelliJ IDEA Community Edition is open source under Apache License 2.0: https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-community
This repo contains all the free versions including Pycharm
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#205The reasons to switch don't make sense. Microsoft provides builds for virtually every major platform and has extensive remote development options. Why is there a requirement to be building it from source?
What is collected via telemetry is published, can be inspected with tools Microsoft provides or third party tools, and can be disabled.
Why are some extensions providing paid versions while keeping the free versions around a bad thing?
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…
> - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. If you like Atom and still want to use it, you can fix potential bugs yourself and make it evolve, you can't with a proprietary one. You can also fork if project take a different direction that you would like. When gnome3 came up, some people who preferred the gnome2 desktop metaphor started mat…
> If you like Atom and still want to use it, you can fix potential bugs yourself and make it evolve...
If "you" is "a company or sponsored non-profit with sufficient development resources to dedicate some to taking over and evolving the editor," sure. If "you" is me, and I suspect 99.99% of Atom users, this seems like a pretty unrealistic ask.
This isn't a criticism of the open source model, to be clear, but this has always struck me as one of the weaker arguments for it having an advantage over closed source models. There are certainly examples of successful forks and revivals, but there are also examples of projects that never got sufficient uptake to continue when the original developer moved on (e.g., the Ted RTF-based word processor), and probably many more projects that just seem to exist in a kind of limbo state, technically still developed but not really seeming to put much effort into keeping up with the world -- off the top of my head, Unix's JOE and JED editors and the famous native Mac editor TextMate, which arguably inspired a raft of later editors including Visual Studio Code. And in practice, closed source projects that get a sufficient level of usage are likely to stick around and keep being developed, too. There are always exceptions, but usually if something continues to be sufficiently popular -- which, in the closed source world, is roughly equivalent to "profitable" -- it's going to keep being supported.
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with the rest of your points, but keyboard navigation in VSC just blows (or I'm doing something very wrong). It's painfully obvious main VSCode developers must be heavy mouse users because you just can't do some things there without a mouse, or they're really awkward (for example, de-focusing the sidebar requires pressing some weird key combo (I think it's Ctrl+Shift+E or something like that?), while a simple…
> I couldn't find a key combo (or any way to configure it) to navigate between classes and functions in the same file. That's an interesting use case, it totally makes sense, it's something I don't know I could have, even though I rarely use mouse. I'm just used to Ctrl+Shift+O and search for member names. I guess that's the real value of a well-designed IDE. It has everything you may find useful and made it discover…
Thanks for the pointer, this seems to work. The plugin seems to have appeared after I last checked for something like that.
Now only to make search at least quarter as good as it is in IDEA (it seems to be very underappreciated for such an important piece of functionality): jumping between results, grouping results by the class/function they appear in, filtering by access type (declaration/definition/read value/write value), etc etc.
Jump up & down has a different use case compared to symbol search (which I too use heavily). If the program is well-structured (i.e. functions are of reasonable size and things that depend on each other and call each other are located nearby), it eases the pain of trying to understand how it all ties together, especially for those with bad short-term memory like myself.
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of them are They just aren't, I would not switch to Jetbrains from VSCode even if it was free. It's not a question of pricing and Jetbrains themselves started to realise it since they are building some VSC clone (forgot the name right now)
They just are though, once you realise how much more powerful they are. I had a collegue until recently (he was let go), who was a staunch VSCode fan that refused to use Jetbrains IDEs. His code is terrible and riddled with bugs. Most of them were even easily detected by the Jetbrains IDEs. Now I have to clean up his shitty projects. He also spend a lot of time configuring his shitty VSCode instead of working.
Expecting a IDE to fix someone's terrible code riddle with bugs non sequitur. What programming language was this?
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But if I want to use Atom I can fork it, or keep the source around. It doesn't go away from my environment until _I_ say it does. This is technically true, but in 99% of the cases is not realistically true. Most developers who use said FOSS external dependency do not want to actively maintain it themselves.
FOSS supporters always say this as if we live in a reality where knowledge and time are infinite. Yes, the licenses say you can legally do things, but they are hardly ever realistic.
Well, you don't do the maintenance yourself, you get some bored person to do it-- the important thing is they're not on a payroll and the result isn't someone's IP. Right now this strategy probably seems insane, because we are all so well compensated that the opportunity cost of working on OSS for free is massive, but sometimes you get 'lucky' and a software downturn frees up some engineering hours for further pro bono work on OSS. Pretty sure that has happened several times already, might happen again soon.
Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…
JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…
> Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications.
I like to live in a country with free speech even if I am not a journalist. For the same reason, even if I personally am not modifying much, I want the software I use to be libre. Nothing about price.