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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

ruky.me

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#161

Post by rpdillon »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

$100 for a tool that enables my career is completely worth it. There are two issues:

* Freedom - my workflow is centered around modifying tools to suit my use case. OSI open source makes this easier sometimes.

* Ubiquity - I detest spending time updating license keys, figuring out if that key works with the version I downloaded, finding out that new-feature isn't available in the version I paid for, or wrangling with how many computers my license will allow me to run the tool on. If the trappings and enforcement of monetization weren't present, I'd spend a lot more money on software tools.

Aside: I worked on a team managing build infra at one point, and just getting license servers and license files set up so that CI could leverage proprietary tools was a major, sustained effort. I know personal tooling is more lightweight, but the same dynamics are present.

So my investment in tuning Emacs feels to me like an actual investment: I've gotten really good at tuning Emacs for various uses, and the time I spent on that has made me a more effective engineer in some ways. I bring Emacs to every job I work and even if I end up using JetBrains for e.g. Android dev, I still have Emacs in my pocket for text editing, Magit, org mode, dired, and shells/terms. I don't feel the same way about time spent managing licenses for proprietary tooling, or even learning this particular company's git tooling; I just keep using Magit. Maybe others don't feel as strongly that their preferred tooling be "everywhere", but I really value it.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#162

Post by jasmaa »

jo-m wrote: post #27
mangamadaiyan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nitpick: s/hoard/horde/g

Nitpick: g flag not necessary here ;)

Curious what the s in the front is for? Looks like regex but I've never seen this syntax specifically before.

Also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#163

Post by lytedev »

garbanz0 wrote: post #102
buf wrote: post #16

I started using vim 13 years ago. Editors come. Editors go. Vim remains.

90% of the time, I'm writing code that vim wouldn't help with, and that 10% never seems to make up for the investment cost of learning it, especially because I'd probably forget the commands between uses. However I do respect vim users.

I'm curious now. What code are you editing that vim could not help with, what tools do you use that do help with this code, and why?

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#164

Post by btdmaster »

shaan7 wrote: post #62
premun wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but also - a controversial opinion - I am pretty sure Microsoft collects the kind of telemetry to learn about user behavior and improve the IDE, and not to collect private information for some kind of other gain. I am sure that whoever develops Codium will eventually get into a dead-end at some point because they won't have any telemetry connected to the product usage. Other piece is that Codium might inheren…

I am really curious but do not have the time to check this myself: is the vscode telemetry part of the open core bit? The reason I ask this is because I agree with your points and I usually allow telemetry for FOSS programs (for example [1]). If the telemetry code is open and people can verify that there isn't any identifiable data that is being collected, I don't see any issue with leaving it on in vscode too. [1] h…

Is the telemetry data in KDE publicly available?

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#165

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

jefftime wrote: post #65
blip54321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

To piggyback off this, another reason that I think software freedom is valuable is community support. Things like LSPs, syntax highlighters, and that sort of support doesn't have to wait on JetBrains to integrate it into their IDE. I think there is real value to the community being able to hack on a tool and not being at the whim of a single developer's priorities

Except for core functionality, everything in JetBrains' IDEs is written as plugins (grammar checking, themes, support for Go/PHP/Ruby/Python/Android/framework of the month, the list goes on). You just don't notice it because of good integration with the rest of the editor (unlike how it's done in Eclipse).

Those can be (and are) developed by anybody. For example, IDEA has had absolutely the best Rust story for many years, and the Rust plugin became official only recently. It was created and developed for years before that by a single developer not affiliated with JB (and still blew all other editors out of the water).

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#166

Post by btdmaster »

Beltalowda wrote: post #155
btdmaster wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Codium has tried, and not succeeded, to disable all telemetry[0][1]. This is with direct access to and patches to source code and all the knobs set to off. If the direction of upstream is diametrically opposed to downstream, it is nearly impossible to prevent these issues. [0] https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/623 [1] https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/issues/631

Neither of those issues describe any telemetry, unless you define "telemetry" as "uses any internet connectivity that's not even to Microsoft's servers".

Is the default npm registry not operated by Microsoft? GitHub definitely is, and that was one of the pings.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#167

Post by apple4ever »

NaN1352 wrote: post #129
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> For individual use, most of them are Except as a developer you need one app, then another, and another… soon enough you’ll be paying 10 x 50$/year. And paying a sub for software is repugnant to me. I bought FontAwesome 5 while it was in KickStarter, it’s no longer updated (it’s now version 6), but at least I can still fully use the thousands of icons I paid for. tldr: way too damn expensive.

Yeah exactly. They are just too expensive. I'm happy to pay for things that I believe are worth it, but especially with yearly subscriptions I don't see the value equation meeting it for these IDEs.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#168

Post by realusername »

elashri wrote: post #93
realusername wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of them are They just aren't, I would not switch to Jetbrains from VSCode even if it was free. It's not a question of pricing and Jetbrains themselves started to realise it since they are building some VSC clone (forgot the name right now)

Their new VSC alternative name is fleet and I don't think they confirmed it will be free like VSCode though.

Thanks for the name, I completely forgot about it. I'm totally fine paying for it if it's nice, it's just that I prefer something similar to VSCode rather than Jetbrains IDEs.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#169

Post by realusername »

jebronie wrote: post #117
realusername wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of them are They just aren't, I would not switch to Jetbrains from VSCode even if it was free. It's not a question of pricing and Jetbrains themselves started to realise it since they are building some VSC clone (forgot the name right now)

They just are though, once you realise how much more powerful they are. I had a collegue until recently (he was let go), who was a staunch VSCode fan that refused to use Jetbrains IDEs. His code is terrible and riddled with bugs. Most of them were even easily detected by the Jetbrains IDEs. Now I have to clean up his shitty projects. He also spend a lot of time configuring his shitty VSCode instead of working.

Oh yeah sure they are powerful, I don't deny that but I really hate the UX and the readability. At the end of the day, I don't really want to spend time to make it usable enough to my liking.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#170

Post by ksec »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

>are so resistant to paying anything

>Take the Jetbrains IDEs

Because most of the modern day software engineers now works on Web related technology. And somehow everything on the Web has to be free or Open Source.

It is much easier to sell IDE or paid for softwares to embedded or system programming developers, or basically any developers which doesn't have anything to do with the Web.

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