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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#111

Post by chadlavi »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

Personal use is a different question, but if my employer doesn't pay for it I'm not buying software to use for their benefit. Any a lot of employers go huh, a free one eh? Use that.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#112

Post by legulere »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

Software engineers know that it's creating new software that is expensive, not copying it. Why not give copies away for free when you satisfied the need that led to the software being written? Even microsoft now understands that it makes more sense to write software to better sell services than to try to sell software directly.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#113

Post by mckravchyk »

tharne wrote: post #107
cdrini wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom. Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as they can for…

> Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom.

The same thing can be said about desktop proprietary software, so long as it does not rely on a cloud service to function.

> Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as they can for you instead of just letting you download the version you want from their store.

iOS is an extreme situation, but we are talking about desktop apps here, desktop OSes don't have these kinds of restrictions.

That said, open source have this edge that if it's just too obsolete for the dependencies, you can hope someone would patch it if it's popular enough. It would be harder to patch a proprietary app. That may not matter as much in the context of Electron apps as the web platform is pretty stable. Not sure about the Java thing Jetbrains IDEs are running on though.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#114

Post by Xunjin »

premun wrote: post #42
Kwpolska wrote: post #6

Their main argument is “no telemetry” (or sometimes “no cemetery tracking”…), but VS Code has a setting to disable telemetry [0], and I would trust that it’s really disabled if you set it so (why would they lie about something quite trivial to check with Wireshark or such?) > I’m sure there is a small performance gain because you don’t have telemetry running in the background sending data to Microsoft. Have you profi…

I agree but also - a controversial opinion - I am pretty sure Microsoft collects the kind of telemetry to learn about user behavior and improve the IDE, and not to collect private information for some kind of other gain. I am sure that whoever develops Codium will eventually get into a dead-end at some point because they won't have any telemetry connected to the product usage. Other piece is that Codium might inheren…

Shameless plug: I would love your "good words/faith" about me so I could get hired by Microsoft :P

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#115

Post by blip54321 »

cdrini wrote: post #64
blip54321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time.

Photoshop has not withstood the test of time for me. I did a lot of Photoshop a few decades ago. I can't afford > $1000 per year for a hobby. My old Photoshop files are dead, for all intents and purposes.

I do occasionally use decades-old, unmaintained open-source tools to open old files.

> Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either.

Yes, it does. Cloud-based, you have no choice. Installed, increasingly, you have no choice either, since activation servers get taken down.

> Being able to fix your own bugs is a great part of open source! But not something most professional software developers really expect to do for their IDE.

It's a check-and-balance. I fix issues maybe in 0.0001% of the tools I use, but when I do, it's really important. With proprietary, you can work 70 hours per week for five years, and invest your blood and soul into a project, and be left hanging at the end, because you're reliant on someone else.

With open-source, you bite the bullet, fix it yourself, and keep chugging along.

> you'll never have a guarantee that a tool you invest time in or money in will be the leading tool in five years.

My experience is that "leading tool" is way oversold. The difference between JQuery a decade ago and React today is important, but even a huge difference like that won't make-or-break a business or a project. Technology is easy. If I needed to write my stuff in FORTRAN, I'd be less productive, but in the end, I'd learn FORTRAN and get the job done.

It's not a reason I'd pick proprietary over open-source.

What is important is all the other stuff. If you've bought something from Oracle or Google -- who are famous for this -- and they discontinue your product or ramp up licensing costings 100x once you've built your infrastructure around them, that CAN and WILL break a business (or a personal project).

Startups have a short half-life. Big businesses have a longer one ("No one got fired for buying IBM"). Open-source is eternal.

Legacy is important. If you don't believe me, have a look at all the FORTRAN and COBOL code still running on old mainframes. If you don't take long-term into account, you're unlikely to do anything lasting.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#116

Post by steve_adams_86 »

the_duke wrote: post #30
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way That's just not true. I have access to the full Jetbrains suite for free, yet I still opt to use Neovim or VS Code/Codium for most languages. Jetbrains IDEs are great in many ways, but are objectively worse on several metrics: * slow startup times * slow initial operations until the JIT is warmed up * even once warm, you always eventually…

I haven’t checked in a couple years, but this mirrors my experience very closely.

I pay for good editors just to support the creators. I want to pay for the one I use daily. The reality is that vscode is the most extensible, performant on average (not in all ways), and useful IDE I have.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#117

Post by jebronie »

realusername wrote: post #51
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of them are They just aren't, I would not switch to Jetbrains from VSCode even if it was free. It's not a question of pricing and Jetbrains themselves started to realise it since they are building some VSC clone (forgot the name right now)

They just are though, once you realise how much more powerful they are. I had a collegue until recently (he was let go), who was a staunch VSCode fan that refused to use Jetbrains IDEs. His code is terrible and riddled with bugs. Most of them were even easily detected by the Jetbrains IDEs. Now I have to clean up his shitty projects. He also spend a lot of time configuring his shitty VSCode instead of working.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#118

Post by codeflo »

brianzelip wrote: post #73
codeflo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a real problem. GitLens[0] comes to mind, which used to be a decent free extension, but now gives me flashbacks to the shareware nag screens of old. I’m also not against selling software on principle. Downgrading a free piece of software into a demo with an auto-update feels shady, however. [0] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=eamodio....

Flashbacks? > Does this affect existing features? > > No, the introduction of GitLens+ has no impact on existing GitLens features, so you won't lose access to any of the GitLens features you know and love. In fact, we are heavily investing in enhancing and expanding the GitLens feature set. Creating an account simply gives you access to a subset of new features that will enable you to get even more out of Git in VS C…

I’m sure the thing you quoted is technically true, the existing features are still there somewhere. But it’s not a great experience if some of the most prominent buttons in the VS Code UI now open the GitKraken account page. YMMV; I personally found this very “in your face” and unusable.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#119

Post by vehemenz »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

This is something I wonder about all the time. I think there a number of reasons:

1. Ideological - probably can't reason with these people

2. Preference for small tools vs. one monolithic tool - less efficient, but I can understand it

3. Ignorance - Many younger/inexperienced developers never learned an IDE, and genuinely do not understand what they are missing

4. Cost - not a concern for most of us, but for minors, students, or developers in India, China, and other developing countries, this is a huge reason that drives ubiquity of VSCode

5. Reduced friction/ubiquity - See 4. Basically, people are already used to it when they get a well-paying job and in theory could use JetBrains IDEs

6. Performance - See 4 again. Not really an issue unless you're on old hardware (especially given that VSCode performs poorly, can't handle large files, etc.)

In conclusion, I think there are some legitimate reasons, but your larger point still stands.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#120

Post by wiseowise »

mckravchyk wrote: post #113
tharne wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom. Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as they can for…

> Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom. The same thing can be said about desktop proprietary software, so long as it does not rely on a cloud service to function. > Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as…

> The same thing can be said about desktop proprietary software, so long as it does not rely on a cloud service to function.

Please, launch 32-bit program on recent versions of Mac OS.

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