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The Birth and Death of the Office

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Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#41

Post by analog31 »

I've gone back to "the office" but I've realized that what I've really gone back to is the lab. And the lab is not the office. The lab has a door that closes, big Danger signs, and a flashing red light above the door.

I also have a desk in a cubicle, but there have been some chances since the pandemic. Maybe others have alluded to it as well: Work life is a bit more relaxed. Our supervisor moved to his home town, and now manages us remotely. It's working out just fine. So the thing about being in the office so we can be watched is gone, if it ever was a thing.

Folks have talked about sitting in the cubes and attending Zoom meetings (or Teams, whatever), but I think meetings have calmed down. Perhaps option of attending via Zoom has eliminated the attraction of calling everybody together into one big room. If the meeting gets too obnoxious, attendance will just evaporate, with people joining the meeting from their desk and "multitasking" to be charitable.

If somebody's not around, you don't know if they're on vacation, or sick, or just working from home. The chance of finding someone at their desk has dwindled to where it's pointless to look for them, just for a chance to interrupt them.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#42

Post by dijit »

thwarted wrote: post #18
rhexs wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I miss offices in reasonable locations. Instead they're all in the same 6-8 cities that all have increasingly bad homeless populations. No, I don't want to live in the Bay, New York City, Boston, Austin, or Denver. Please create small satellite offices in reasonable cities instead of mega campuses in towns that all seem to have public libraries that are now defacto homeless shelters. Tech imports most of the talent t…

> I miss offices in reasonable locations. Instead they're all in the same 6-8 cities... The majority of the US population lives in the same 6-8 metro areas; so it's "reasonable" to put offices in those metro areas. I've worked at places with offices in downtown areas (short public transit ride or walk), in close suburbs (the extent to where public transit goes), and in remote suburbs (that require driving to get ther…

> The majority of the US population lives in the same 6-8 metro areas; so it's "reasonable" to put offices in those metro areas.

Isn’t this self-reinforcing though?

I moved to london because there were no jobs for people like me _anywhere_ else near where I came from.

Thus, I contributed to the problem.

When I broached the topic some years later with a company, they said that they moved to london because that’s where the talent is.

It’s surely self-fulfilling.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#43

Post by Philip-J-Fry »

mahathu wrote: post #39
osigurdson wrote: post #21

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

i like hanging out and talking to my coworkers, it's fun:)

Nowadays people will try and convince you you're weird and wrong if you say you enjoy seeing other people and not working in silence at home.

I like the office environment. The only thing I don't like is the commute. This is why I think the future is local shared working spaces within towns so that they're in walking distance. I'd much rather have a 15 minute walk to work than a 30 minute drive.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#44

Post by aylmao »

osigurdson wrote: post #21

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

I agree, but I don't think the problem is so much "the office", but rather how poorly cities are designed in the USA;

- The lack of mixed use zoning makes it just that much more likely that one live so far from their workplace. The choice is too often "a house far away from everything" or "a high-rise close to the noise, smells, and un-pretty sights of town"

- There's so little space to build offices cities end up having super-dense downtowns, with very tall, expensive and crowded buildings. This is great for office real-estate, but terrible for everyone else because it means traffic. Since cities tend to have only one mega-downtown, cause zoning in the USA is pretty adamant in grouping everything together, things get even worse, because everyone is moving in the same direction at the same time.

- This hyper-dense core, but hyper-sparse suburb outskirts in cities make it very hard to bike to work; many people in the USA wouldn't even consider it an option. It's also hard to build efficient public transit. The routes that make sense are radial, so they might be good to get to work, but inefficient for leisure. Things are so far apart in the suburbs one it's hard to put stations close to everyone where they live.

The fact so many people prefer to not leave their home for work should be considered a moderate victory for remote communication technology, but an abysmal failure in urban design.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#45

Post by jmspring »

mahathu wrote: post #39
osigurdson wrote: post #21

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

i like hanging out and talking to my coworkers, it's fun:)

I find it ok to see and visit coworkers now and then, but work is not meant to replace one's social life. Further, some years back, I attended a couple different "Work at a Startup" and related events. Companies pushing "we are a family", "we hang out after work" typically means they have an unreasonable expectation of how much time they expect you to be around - despite productivity.

Do I have colleagues (current or former) that are friends? Yes. Do/did I feel a need to be in the office to spend time with them - no.

Work is a contract between myself and my employer to produce based on a certain set of expectations. Those expectations shall not include (nor exclude) social interactions outside those times.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#46

Post by jmspring »

ultim8k wrote: post #20

Office sucks. Let me list a few things: - Hot desks - People laughing and constantly talking while you are trying to focus - Unstable temperature making you freeze or boil - Uncomfortable and unhealthy desks/chairs - Often lack of proper screens/equipment - Getting squeezed in trains to commute - spending at best an extra hour per day - Unhealthy and expensive dietary options around work - Contamination of diseases -…

While at Skype - open offices were a thing - someone thought it was beneficial to have people testing A/V as well as video standup areas (dispersed teams) in the same areas people were trying to get work done.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#47

Post by alistairSH »

999900000999 wrote: post #31
osigurdson wrote: post #21

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

The point is to keep local economies alive. It's not about us, it's about the guy who delivers lunch, or the girl who owns the bagel shop. However, offices are straight up abelist , if you have mobility issues it's absurdly hard to commute. Commuting isn't really needed here, if I was in a wheelchair I'd take this to court. Full tin foil hat time, if remote work was the norm the entire commercial real estate sector w…

It's not about us, it's about the guy who delivers lunch, or the girl who owns the bagel shop.

Isn’t that just an instance of the broken window parable? There’s nothing to prevent the bagel shop locating adjacent to a residential area instead of an office park - then society sees the benefit of WFH and tasty round breads.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#48

Post by alistairSH »

ultim8k wrote: post #20

Office sucks. Let me list a few things: - Hot desks - People laughing and constantly talking while you are trying to focus - Unstable temperature making you freeze or boil - Uncomfortable and unhealthy desks/chairs - Often lack of proper screens/equipment - Getting squeezed in trains to commute - spending at best an extra hour per day - Unhealthy and expensive dietary options around work - Contamination of diseases -…

Totally agree. I feel like the ideal balance would be 2x/month office visits to coordinate/meet/socialize. And WFH the rest of the time. But, at the same time, I don’t want to limit my hiring to the local market (and 4/6 of my team are fully remote), so WFH/remote it is. Really, I just miss social lunches and a bit of water-cooler gossip. I should try to convince my two local employees to meet for a snack sometime and call it good enough.

Edit - I don’t remotely miss the open office at my employer. Worst idea ever. Directors and VPs hog the conference rooms, leaving me (line manager) to roam around looking for private spaces to talk to employees. Dumb dumb dumb. End rant.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#49

Post by jen20 »

aylmao wrote: post #44
osigurdson wrote: post #21

I don't think there is anything else more illogical in modern society than waking up in building A, hopping in a car and fighting traffic for an hour to get to building B just to sit in front of a computer for 8 hours (perhaps with a few minimally productive meetings here and there), then commute back to building A 8 hours later. Building B sits empty for 16 hours a day while Building A sits empty for 10 with both be…

I agree, but I don't think the problem is so much "the office", but rather how poorly cities are designed in the USA; - The lack of mixed use zoning makes it just that much more likely that one live so far from their workplace. The choice is too often "a house far away from everything" or "a high-rise close to the noise, smells, and un-pretty sights of town" - There's so little space to build offices cities end up ha…

“The office” being near “the house” doesn’t change each of them being unused for much of the day.

Re: The Birth and Death of the Office

#50

Post by vwcx »

alistairSH wrote: post #47
999900000999 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to keep local economies alive. It's not about us, it's about the guy who delivers lunch, or the girl who owns the bagel shop. However, offices are straight up abelist , if you have mobility issues it's absurdly hard to commute. Commuting isn't really needed here, if I was in a wheelchair I'd take this to court. Full tin foil hat time, if remote work was the norm the entire commercial real estate sector w…

It's not about us, it's about the guy who delivers lunch, or the girl who owns the bagel shop. Isn’t that just an instance of the broken window parable? There’s nothing to prevent the bagel shop locating adjacent to a residential area instead of an office park - then society sees the benefit of WFH and tasty round breads.

Northern Virginia has seen this with food trucks. Since late 2020, I'm starting to see food trucks posting up in the evenings in various residential neighborhoods (almost like how ice cream trucks trawl the streets in summer). This would have been unthinkable just a few years ago -- not worth it for the truck owner. But now they're moving to where people are, which is the upper-middle-class neighborhoods where everyone still WFH. Incredible to see a line for dinner at a food truck parked in the middle of a residential summer street in the suburbs.

All this to say: there are ways to keep evolving how things are usually done.

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