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Eating at your desk is banned in France

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Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#51

Post by swatcoder »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #38
swatcoder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that aggregates may not scale down to every individual. Data > Statistics

Also true! But we have to have an agreement on foundational facts to have a cogent debate of ideas. Preferences aren’t facts, but are still welcome. If you want to eat at your desk while I have a 90 minute lunch with wine and good company, that’s okay, life is about choices. We are optimizing differently.

It’s interesting that you seem to take the OP as trying to optimize productivity.

I assume this because you first point out that French culture is more productive, and then link to the discussion about toxic productivity.

But to me, it sounds like they just prefer to defragment their day regardless of productivity.

I think the whole idea of escaping toxic productivity is to not worry about maximally optimizing it in the first place. I’d bet you’re both on the same page about that.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#52

Post by fartcannon »

dopidopHN wrote: post #9
damagednoob wrote: post #3

This is one of the reasons why I love to work from home. I'm not beholden to company policy that seeks to improve productivity at the expense of how I choose to structure my day. Maybe I eat at my desk so I can spend that hour lunch break with my kid in the afternoon. Maybe I'll take a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day because I didn't sleep well the previous night. I'm so glad to be rid of these inflexible, petty…

This article is clickbaity. no lunch police will come knock at the door once you start eating your salad. It’s more about forcing workplace to provide a dedicated space with a table, a fridge … the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch. Establish rapport with your coworker, or focus on your cold pasta salad to reach mindfulness. If you want to save 2min40s and develop a ulcers, you are free to do so.

He's not going to get ulcers. He works from home and isn't beholden to corporate rules.

That said, a nice kitchen is nice.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#53

Post by cguess »

csdvrx wrote: post #44
achenet wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frenchman here. I leave the office at 6pm at the latest, and I take 2 hour lunch breaks everyday. :)

> Frenchman here. I leave the office at 6pm at the latest, and I take 2 hour lunch breaks everyday. :) Good for you - not for me. I do intermittent fasting. I often eat by 4pm. Should I need the government authorization to eat at my desk at 4pm? (or leave at 4pm to eat at home which is equivalent to you leaving at 6pm after a 2h lunch break) Or would I need to take a 2h break I don't want to? Government regulation of…

Hello straw man. Read the story and the other comments. No one's forcing you to not eat at your desk in France, it's just making companies give the option not to.

Not eating after 4pm is a very very rare condition in the entire world. I wouldn't expect everyone, or anyone, to take that into consideration of any policy.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#54

Post by throw10920 »

dopidopHN wrote: post #9
damagednoob wrote: post #3

This is one of the reasons why I love to work from home. I'm not beholden to company policy that seeks to improve productivity at the expense of how I choose to structure my day. Maybe I eat at my desk so I can spend that hour lunch break with my kid in the afternoon. Maybe I'll take a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day because I didn't sleep well the previous night. I'm so glad to be rid of these inflexible, petty…

This article is clickbaity. no lunch police will come knock at the door once you start eating your salad. It’s more about forcing workplace to provide a dedicated space with a table, a fridge … the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch. Establish rapport with your coworker, or focus on your cold pasta salad to reach mindfulness. If you want to save 2min40s and develop a ulcers, you are free to do so.

The article isn't clickbaity in the slightest - it's illegal to eat your lunch at your desk in France. That's a fact.

Something illegal is still illegal. Relying on non-enforcement at some companies is absolutely absurd - not only is enforcement of something like this going to vary (so some poor unlucky souls won't have the option at all), but you open yourself up to selective enforcement.

It feel blindingly obvious that the correct thing to do is to remove this ridiculous law, and then, if you want "the minimal amenities to have a civilized lunch" - then legislate that, not some absurd illiberal law that removes a choice that is very desirable for some people.

I say this as someone who sometimes wants to eat lunch at my desk so I can get off earlier, and other times will go out to eat with co-workers and enjoy their company. There's no reason to not give me that choice.

> One female labor inspector noted in her report of 1901 that women saw the enforcement of the law as "tyrannical."

Tyrannical indeed.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#55

Post by throw10920 »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #35
causality0 wrote: post #15

Ninety minutes, free-flowing conversation, perhaps a glass of wine Yuck. Of course it creates more productivity, they're sucking free time out of my evening and injecting into my work day. Screw that. I'm eating a sandwich at my desk in peace and then I'm going home an hour earlier than these shmucks.

It's also nice to spend time with the colleagues. Especially as we're only in the office one or two days a week now. I like it, though we don't spend 90 minutes but one hour. We always go to a restaurant off-site and have a 3 course meal with a beer for who wants it. PS I'm in Spain not France but similar culture. But here you can eat at the desk if you really want to. Also I go to France regularly and people do eat…

I'd at least like the choice as to whether I want to spend those 90 minutes with my colleagues, friends, or family, though...

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#56

Post by morninglight »

The late Patrick Henry Winston stopped eating at his desk in an effort to lose weight. As part of his "General Patton Diet", he subsequently lost 60 lbs in 100 days.

Before: http://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomethen.jpg

After: https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/pensees/welcomenow.jpg

"I learned to eat and drink veeeeeery slowly at the table meant for eating, not in front of my computer screen. I used to cram in a day's worth of calories in a few minutes, before my body had any idea I was eating anything, which experts say takes 20 minutes."

https://people.csail.mit.edu/phw/index.html

.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#57

Post by throw10920 »

cguess wrote: post #53
csdvrx wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frenchman here. I leave the office at 6pm at the latest, and I take 2 hour lunch breaks everyday. :) Good for you - not for me. I do intermittent fasting. I often eat by 4pm. Should I need the government authorization to eat at my desk at 4pm? (or leave at 4pm to eat at home which is equivalent to you leaving at 6pm after a 2h lunch break) Or would I need to take a 2h break I don't want to? Government regulation of…

Hello straw man. Read the story and the other comments. No one's forcing you to not eat at your desk in France, it's just making companies give the option not to. Not eating after 4pm is a very very rare condition in the entire world. I wouldn't expect everyone, or anyone, to take that into consideration of any policy.

> No one's forcing you to not eat at your desk in France, it's just making companies give the option not to.

Can you point out where the article says that? All I see is "The government's answer: ban lunch in the workplace."

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#58

Post by throw10920 »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #20

A very à propos clip from a french TV-show about the cultural differences between France and the U.S wrt lunch: https://youtu.be/EAyQfctnWqw?t=93 Not at all surprised to see people here framing a law supporting workers' rights as an infringement on personal liberties. Comparing the work cultures of both countries, it's clear Americans will defend their personal liberties right into servitude.

This is an emotionally-manipulative, inflammatory comment that shouldn't be on HN.

Re: Eating at your desk is banned in France

#60

Post by causality0 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #26
causality0 wrote: post #15

Ninety minutes, free-flowing conversation, perhaps a glass of wine Yuck. Of course it creates more productivity, they're sucking free time out of my evening and injecting into my work day. Screw that. I'm eating a sandwich at my desk in peace and then I'm going home an hour earlier than these shmucks.

France is more productive per capita (edit: the reference I found was from 2009, France is currently slightly less productive than the US per capita[1]) and has a higher quality of life than the US. Consider improving your mental model and recognizing you are not as well off and productive as you believe. Japanese workers spend a lot of time at their desks too, but not that productive! Data > emotions, work to live d…

What on earth are you on about? I said nothing about per capita productivity or quality of life. I said I'd rather have more free time at home instead of an additional hour of lunch time.
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