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MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

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Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#171
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit the nail right on the head! That's exactly what we did :)

Apparently they haven’t fixed it yet, so a hardware solution may in fact not be possible, but is there any reason to believe it couldn’t be patched in “microcode”? Who can guess at the performance impact, but one could imagine a configurable mechanism capable of disabling speculation past a PAC authentication.

Does the m1 even have microcode ?

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting! Were the unit testing procedures used in the hardware design and simulation processes themselves flawed? Reading up on these I have not yet been able to elucidate any forensic insight into the original chip design.

Unit testing isn't really the issue here, spectre / meltdown / rowhammer are pretty fundamental design problems.

meltdown / rowhammer are pretty fundamental design problems, spectre is even a pretty fundamental logic problem. It hasn't been comprehensively fixed in HW and probably will never be because it directly contradicts the need for reasonable perf on multicore CPUs (at the intersection between speculative/OOO execution and cache coherency, and both are needed for reasonable perfs). Rowhammer is also hard to comprehensively fix for physics reasons, but hopefully some dedicated mitigations plus ECC are good enough for not ultra-critical applications; some people think more could be done that could practically fix it, but I don't know if they have managed to convince the industry (and get some value from their patents in the process). So of the three, only meltdown could be really fixed by a quick iteration of processor design (and it is also workaround by the OS on old affected models, at a performance cost)

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#174
post #12

Hi! Joseph (one of the authors) here. You can read more about our attack here: https://pacmanattack.com

Really amazing work here!

A colleague pointed out that FPAC[1] in ARMV8.6-A likely prevents this attack, is that right?

I haven't fully digested the paper, but the gadgets seem to rely on AUT, and "Implementations with FPAC generate an exception on an AUT* instruction where the PAC is incorrect"

[1] https://community.arm.com/arm-community-blogs/b/architecture...

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently they haven’t fixed it yet, so a hardware solution may in fact not be possible, but is there any reason to believe it couldn’t be patched in “microcode”? Who can guess at the performance impact, but one could imagine a configurable mechanism capable of disabling speculation past a PAC authentication.

Does the m1 even have microcode ?

I’d be shocked if a modern CPU didn’t have some kind of “firmware” to respond to errata.

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#177
post #55

Skimmed this really fast, but is this just bypassing PAC by brute-forcing the code with speculative execution?

Pretty much! (There are a few aspects that make this challenging in practice, but that's the idea).

cool, thanks!

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that we reached a point where assuming bad faith from public informers is acceptable and, worse, reasonable.

Worth noting that someone else usually writes the headline for the articles, not the journalist / the author of an article.

OK, but that doesn't excuse things. There's a problem with journalism and its mostly about how they are incentivized and compensated. I don't know what the fix is but its clear that trust is so low, and rightfully so that journalism has largely failed as an industry at its job.

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that someone else usually writes the headline for the articles, not the journalist / the author of an article.

OK, but that doesn't excuse things. There's a problem with journalism and its mostly about how they are incentivized and compensated. I don't know what the fix is but its clear that trust is so low, and rightfully so that journalism has largely failed as an industry at its job.

Journalism is paid for by ads, mostly. For online journalism, unless people click there is no money to pay the producers. Hence clickbait. This is a problem but there are worse problems.

Re: MIT researchers uncover ‘unpatchable’ flaw in Apple M1 chips

#180
post #84
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enabling 3rd-party extensions is much more involved on AS Macs: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/change-security-set... Then the extension needs to be allowed in System Preferences > Security (this step has been required on Intel Macs too)

Additionally, if can find a way to trick a user into installing a malicious kext, why even bother with PACMAN? You already have arbitrary kernel code execution!

First you need to trick Apple into signing that kext (which is getting more difficult by the day even for legitimate uses), or get the user to disable SIP first.
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