Earlier quoted context omitted.
pseudonymity is a reasonable compromise.
And equally as untenable in the crypto world.
how so? for example, i operate a pseudonym.
Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
71–80 of 295 posts
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a web3 critic, my criticism is not that there can be only one, it is that all the proposed web3 stuff that I read about is just an existing thing with extra steps. If I were to build a blog system I would not store the blog posts in a local merkle tree. Why not? Because a regular database has more benefits. Now why would I want to store the data on a decentralized public merkle tree (blockchain)? I don't want my b…
You fall into the same trap that the parent commenter points out. Rarely does a serious web3 project aim to put everything on a blockchain. But something like a Kickstarter-ish crowdfund system could be using a blockchain contract to handle funding and escrow, while the rest of the website is hosted in a standard web2 way. Suddenly it’s a “web3 project” where users are able to interact with and even own records in th…
Not the parent's objection, rather my own, but how many times has this been tried already, only to hit predictable and easily avoidable issues, if only you'd been using fiat?
Like for example, the crypto kickstarter that tried to buy a copy of the constitution? Nevermind the fact that the geniuses in charge didn't realize this didn't give them merchandising rights, when the bid failed, returning the money was a legitimate problem. Hell, even collecting the money was hard, for the same reason - gas fees.
Sure, there are ways around gas fees using second layer chains or whatever, but it's STILL not any more useful than just using fiat currency and existing systems.
Just solutions in search of problems. Kickstarter-style platforms are NOT a problem that fiat currency doesn't solve. Adding blockchain, even just for payment, doesn't solve this problem that doesn't exist.
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#73There are two interesting aspects of self-sovereign identity that are not worth hand-waiving away as dystopian: - it provides identity tools that use standards that span across geographical and platform boundaries. this is a different form of “user account” than say an online Amazon or NYStateGov account. it is good to have an option on the web for auth and identity that is detached from any single corporate entity o…
What SSI systems exist that are widely adopted and have a user base in at least few million MAUs?
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#74Molly White consistently writes concise and precise essays about problems in the crypto space that the crypto "community" consistently fail to address or even respond to in as concise and precise a manner. Well, except "it's too early" and "these articles are wrong and a smear campaign".
The whole post has a general tone of hand-waving away any decentralized idea as dystopian or a privacy nightmare, without taking any look at the current dystopian landscape of Google and Apple account based identity.
It’s also pretty hard to “address” the post as, in broad strokes, many crypto people will agree with her. Nobody wants all data to be public on a blockchain. Worldcoin is disturbing. SBTs are poorly named and not perfect. Identity data posted on an immutable ledger is dystopian, and why ZK proofs are getting so much attention to try and solve this.
Just to take a specific comment:
> Now [Buterin’s] revealing here that his dreams for soulbound tokens involve police departments uploading criminal records to the blockchain. [..] Not only that, but he’s envisioning a world in which every police department uploads criminal records to a blockchain, providing the level of data completeness required to prove a negative.
That whole paragraph sounds like a crazy rant by Molly. Vitalik never said that criminal records in the real world should be posted to a public blockchain. His statement was that it can be useful to verify some record of a user before taking some action with them. In the real world one way this is done is with a criminal background check.
Vitalik often points to ZK proof primitives to avoid posting any private data online. Molly does not seem to take this into account, and hardly gives it a passing mention when she earlier writes:
> Buterin brushes this off with the argument that such a system could use zk-SNARKs to encrypt the token contents as well as its sender and recipient.
To the casual reader it might seem like Vitalik wants to put private real-world data on a public ledger. But this is not the reality of his statements.
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking personally, they might be concise and precise but the arguments are nothing new and too often have simple counter arguments. That's the reason they're not addressed, there really is no reason to except to directly address the Molly white audience.
> too often have simple counter arguments If only there was anyone to provide those. > That's the reason they're not addressed No, it's not the reason. Because you'd think that after a decade there would be blog posts or articles with coherent explanations of how these problems are tackled. Nope. All we hear is "there are arguments but we won't show them to you just join the discords believe in blockchain so many sma…
There are endless blogs and forums with these arguments chewed out, just a google search away.
Molly sounds like someone with an agenda of wilful ignorance due to how easily rebuttals of her arguments can be located, and thus it’s a waste of time to even engage.
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#76This is a great write-up for introducing some of these concepts. For those who want to go deeper, highly recommend reading up more on DIDs https://w3c.github.io/did-use-cases/ Verifiable Credentials: https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/ Some people working in the space to follow: https://twitter.com/kimdhamilton https://twitter.com/IdentityWoman https://twitter.com/ChristopherA Also highly recommend this paper by Fen…
> being able to establish identity at all is still a major problem in many places
Are you sure? Where? And why would the tried and tested methods for establishing identity not work in those places?
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#77I regret having wasted about 5 minutes reading this before scrolling through the rest
some surface knowledge, little to no expertise, further watered down by lots of musings nobody except those familiar with the guy who wrote it would really care to read in full
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#78There are two interesting aspects of self-sovereign identity that are not worth hand-waiving away as dystopian: - it provides identity tools that use standards that span across geographical and platform boundaries. this is a different form of “user account” than say an online Amazon or NYStateGov account. it is good to have an option on the web for auth and identity that is detached from any single corporate entity o…
Why would anyone sign a message on a public ledger?
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#79Why is the techno-libertarian world so overwhelmingly obsessed with extreme individualism? We are social creatures. We sacrifice individual needs because we gain massive security and social value in return. We need a balance of the various ideologies, and not the extremism of any one ideology. Fifty years of narcissistic, anti-social, "Leave me the hell alone" libertarianism is at the heart of the culture-rot collaps…
individualism, liberty and self-reliance are pillars of the modern developed world, which is the best place to live in all the history of mankind.
and we have plenty of examples from the last century of what do you get if you adopt the opposite values
Re: Is “acceptably non-dystopian” self-sovereign identity even possible?
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
You fall into the same trap that the parent commenter points out. Rarely does a serious web3 project aim to put everything on a blockchain. But something like a Kickstarter-ish crowdfund system could be using a blockchain contract to handle funding and escrow, while the rest of the website is hosted in a standard web2 way. Suddenly it’s a “web3 project” where users are able to interact with and even own records in th…
Not the parent's objection, rather my own, but how many times has this been tried already, only to hit predictable and easily avoidable issues, if only you'd been using fiat? Like for example, the crypto kickstarter that tried to buy a copy of the constitution? Nevermind the fact that the geniuses in charge didn't realize this didn't give them merchandising rights, when the bid failed, returning the money was a legit…
How many times do we have to keep trying to make cars happen, we have perfectly good horse-drawn carriages!
The constitution DAO was pretty successful application of the tech. Within a week, they went from idea to public fundraiser, raised more than they would have been allowed to on Kickstarter or GoFundMe, had immediate access to the funds, and paid 0% commission compared to what most corporate platforms would charge. When the bid failed, donors were able to seamlessly exchange their PEOPLE tokens for their initial deposit. The whole process was faster than Kickstarter’s 14 day settlement.
The fees could be mitigated by using a rollup.
They lost the auction because their maximum fixed bid was public knowledge, but another application of this tech could just activate the funds toward the goal such as putting it toward carbon removal.
Disclosure: I was one of the donors and I knew the risks and also the fees involved, and I was satisfied with the whole process. A low fee tech like this on a rollup would be great.