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Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

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Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#31

Post by patio11 »

Silicon Valley is chum-tactic, so if you really care about the differential access problem for X, regardless of the value of X, make extra special effort to both tell X that Silicon Valley is chum-tactic and to introduce them to the right people.

Chum-tactic: the first filter applied to you, for press or investment or anything, is "Who sent you to me?" Some people think "Silicon Valley is a meritocracy" implies that the first filter would be merit. Ahem. Be meritorious, but make sure being meritorious makes an impression on someone who routinely has dinner with the people whose cooperation you need. (Hint: this happens spontaneously sometimes but that isn't the way to bet.)

P.S. Lots of the world and lots of situations work like this, with wide variations in local etiquette for what counts as an intro and what warrants one. "Who sent you?" is also the first filter for Chicago government contracting and Nagoya job offers.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#32

Post by yummyfajitas »

kenjackson wrote: post #9
yummyfajitas wrote: post #2

People, for the most part, want to work with people that are “like them” or that fit a pattern that appeals to them. I see this argument made a lot. But this argument has a huge hole in it - Chinese and Indians are also not "like them". And yet, Chinese/Indians are not underrepresented. If Hank William's theory were correct, they should be. Any theory concerning the underrepresentation of blacks which does not distin…

Chinese and Indians are also not "like them" Yes, they often are. One of the biggest names in the VC world is Vinod Khosla. Kleiner Perkins has a whole team dedicated to China. Accel has multiple Chinese and Indians on their US team (and dedicated China and India teams). Every major SV VC firm looks like this. White (US), White (European), White (Israeli), Indian, and Chinese. The "them" isn't just Caucasians, but it…

So do you think I (a non-Indian) would be at a disadvantage applying to Khosla's outfit [1]? If Khosla looks for people "like him", that should be the case.

Similarly, would an Indian founder be at a disadvantage applying to Fred Wilson? Somehow, I suspect any disadvantage would be minor, if it existed at all.

In any case, your theory of who "them" is now drawn quite broadly. It's not so much people looking for others "like them", it's more like looking for people from within an arbitrary subset that includes widely disparate and dissimilar groups (White and Asian Americans, Chinese, Indians, Israelis, Europeans).

[1] Ignore for the sake of argument that I'm the only non-Indian in my company.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#33

Post by Rariel »

protomyth wrote: post #28
Rariel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@protomyth I worked with the Dept. of Indian Affairs so I really don't need a lecture or directions on what to look up from you. The situation of Native Americans is heartbreaking. It was most certainly genocide and disgusting. Again, it is not about who had it worse it is just that there are distinct differences. The number of Native Americans in the valley is inherently going to be smaller because of the genocide t…

"I really don't need a lecture or directions on what to look up from you" Then you shouldn't use the word "unique" in a context of "had it worse" then other groups. "Dept. of Indian Affairs" Are you out of Canada or at one of the states? The Federal level is called "Bureau of Indian Affairs".

I never used the word unique. Also re: bureau v. Dept-- Im not ashamed to admit I can't spell to save my life so I used dept instead of bureau because I was on my way out of the office and was too rushed to google when my spelling was so far off the browser's spell check didn't even know what I was trying to spell. It actually has two official names, I forget the other but it may very well be dept, or office. at least it did 2004-06 when I was working with them.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#34

Post by jessedhillon »

Having read many threads on HN about race, gender and other -isms, I can predict what this comment section will look like at around 100 comments. It will be equal parts denial of other peoples' experiences and dogged insistence on the existence of a magical leveling force ensuring that justice has been perfectly delivered. There will be some gems among all that, but it's mostly going to be sweeping, questionable assertions about a wide swath of people.

Before you comment, please read about the Just World fallacy (thanks irahul) and ask yourself whether you may be subject to it. And answer honestly.

http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/06/07/the-just-world-fallac...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#35

Post by Steko »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #32
kenjackson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese and Indians are also not "like them" Yes, they often are. One of the biggest names in the VC world is Vinod Khosla. Kleiner Perkins has a whole team dedicated to China. Accel has multiple Chinese and Indians on their US team (and dedicated China and India teams). Every major SV VC firm looks like this. White (US), White (European), White (Israeli), Indian, and Chinese. The "them" isn't just Caucasians, but it…

So do you think I (a non-Indian) would be at a disadvantage applying to Khosla's outfit [1]? If Khosla looks for people "like him", that should be the case. Similarly, would an Indian founder be at a disadvantage applying to Fred Wilson? Somehow, I suspect any disadvantage would be minor, if it existed at all. In any case, your theory of who "them" is now drawn quite broadly. It's not so much people looking for other…

He is saying that the tech clique is whites and asians. If you're not Indian but you're white (Chinese, Jewish, etc.) this does not put you at a disadvantage. If you're non-white and non-asian all things being equal you would be at a disadvantage.

This is not a very strong claim. It's been shown repeatedly with resumes and in loan applications that a black name/photo/applicant is less likely to move forward than a white photo/applicant with identical qualifications. It shouldn't be shocking that this exists in VC financing.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#36

Post by finnw »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #26

Let me offend some people. When I see a white rapper I usually am already biased against them. Sorry, I have associated rap with black people. However the color test doesn't go past 10 seconds into listening to a record. Life isn't easier for a black rapper who sucks. Being shot 10 times won't help either. So is it hard to be a white rapper? Maybe. But remember, Eminem is one of the greatest rapper to ever touch the…

Eminem is one of the greatest rapper

Yup, I'm offended now :)

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#37

Post by jessedhillon »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #32
kenjackson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese and Indians are also not "like them" Yes, they often are. One of the biggest names in the VC world is Vinod Khosla. Kleiner Perkins has a whole team dedicated to China. Accel has multiple Chinese and Indians on their US team (and dedicated China and India teams). Every major SV VC firm looks like this. White (US), White (European), White (Israeli), Indian, and Chinese. The "them" isn't just Caucasians, but it…

So do you think I (a non-Indian) would be at a disadvantage applying to Khosla's outfit [1]? If Khosla looks for people "like him", that should be the case. Similarly, would an Indian founder be at a disadvantage applying to Fred Wilson? Somehow, I suspect any disadvantage would be minor, if it existed at all. In any case, your theory of who "them" is now drawn quite broadly. It's not so much people looking for other…

You are narrowly reducing the "like him" assessment to race alone. It's culture + race that makes the determination. An Indian person has an easier time demonstrating that s/he is part of the mainstream culture. In my experience, educated immigrants, or children thereof, are often received as a blank slate and accordingly it's easy to see them as "one of us."

Most Americans, however, already have a conception of who Blacks and Hispanics "are" and it's not quite positive. They have a deficit initial position, where Indians and Chinese have a more-or-less neutral position. Moderately educated, well dressed Whites are generally neutral or positive. This may be in part due to the general American dislike of poor people -- immigrants who come to this country are usually educated and well off compared to the population of their country of origin, so the American over here only ever sees educated people from that place. However, that same American sees Black and Hispanic people all across the social spectrum, and can't help but have his opinion of that group lowered.

In my experience, the white guy who graduated from state college starts off -- in the mind of the person assessing him -- as well or better than the brown guy who went to a top tier school.

You're welcome to disagree, I'm sure you will object to some degree. This is only what I've observed.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#38

Post by vannevar »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #24
enjalot wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You only covered the "like them" aspect, what about the "fit a pattern that appeals to them" part? Chinese and Indians fall into "model minority" stereotypes, which have their own set of evils (you are X so you must be good at Y is it's own kind of dehumanization). So someone making a gut call might have underlying prejudices for Asians and against blacks. In other words, when is the last time a white person has cros…

In that case, why do Indians/Chinese "fit a pattern that appeals to them" and Blacks do not? I focused on "like them" because that's a lower entropy theory than "fit a pattern" - it's a claim that VC's thought process is x -> cultural_distance(self, x). "Fit a pattern" is basically just an assertion that VC's have a table of values in their mind, { "asian" : +1, "white" : 0, "black" : -1 } without explaining either w…

"...how we even know it exists."

This is not a subject where we have to rely on speculation or personal experience. We know widespread racial bias exists because of solid scientific evidence accumulated over years of study. An example and some history: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/06/090617142120.ht... . There is no reason to assume VCs are immune.

Re: Arrington, Race, and Silicon Valley

#40

Post by protomyth »

Rariel wrote: post #33
protomyth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I really don't need a lecture or directions on what to look up from you" Then you shouldn't use the word "unique" in a context of "had it worse" then other groups. "Dept. of Indian Affairs" Are you out of Canada or at one of the states? The Federal level is called "Bureau of Indian Affairs".

I never used the word unique. Also re: bureau v. Dept-- Im not ashamed to admit I can't spell to save my life so I used dept instead of bureau because I was on my way out of the office and was too rushed to google when my spelling was so far off the browser's spell check didn't even know what I was trying to spell. It actually has two official names, I forget the other but it may very well be dept, or office. at leas…

my mistake, my original response was to the person saying "unique" and I got confused on who was what.

If you apply for a computer security job, make sure to not list "Dept of Interior" in the context of tribes. They had some serious data loss issues (as in whole Dept of Interior (parent org of BIA) being taken off the internet. I still want to talk to the damn judge since he removed the tribal college access to the internet at the same time (including those schools not getting their internet from the BIA). The bricks just keep on being stacked.

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