331–340 of 345 posts
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[deleted]
I don’t want to live in a society where unnecessary perilous violence is the norm. Is that a good enough reason for you?
I don't think that's going to change any time soon. Unless they legalize it, that is.
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I guess I am stuck on what it is you mean by "falling for troll bait". In my mind it means that you get sucked into an internet argument by someone who clearly just wants to cause trouble, not have discussion. The fault for this guy's escalation to the point of calling people's place of business , etc.lies entirely with him. So I'd agree that you treating men and women equally, but I would argue that you would be equ…
MikeeUSA is a troll. He has no means to actually harm anyone, and he does it purely for the lulz. Thus, MikeeUSA trolled a woman, and she took the bait. I just don't get why this is news, I've been trolled before, I don't get a news story. This isn't blaming the victim, this is blaming someone who allowed a troll to win and just made it that much harder for every other woman on the Internet to be taken seriously. And…
No, no he is not. A troll is someone who advances an exaggerated position they do not hold, for the entertainment value of watching the commotion it causes.
A troll is not someone who:
- creates misogynistic game content glorifying the rape and oppression of women
- repeatedly creates throw-away email accounts with new names in order to ensure his hateful message is heard in forums from which he has been banned
- hosts his personal website in Canada because he knows it's more difficult to shut him down across international borders
- bounces all of his traffic through TOR to avoid prosecution for his behavior
MikeeUSA has done all of these things. He is not a troll. He is a sad little manchild with an inferiority complex and he is a boil on the butt of humanity, but he is not a troll.
Nor are people who harrass their targets at their place of work "trolls".
It's very easy to dismiss inappropriate behavior as "trolling". When you dismiss harrassment as "trolling" and suggest that it should be ignored, you are part of the problem. When you blame Skud for "letting the trolls win," you are part of the problem.
It's absurd and offensive for you to claim that Skud is "scaring more women away" by talking about her experience or for deciding to leave the tech industry. What scares women away from FOSS are their actual personal experiences of harrassment. You don't want women to shy away from high profile positions in the FOSS community? Worry instead about finding a solution to the problem that women who do are subjected to the kind of abuse that makes them decide it's not worth the pain to be involved in this community.
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I'm pretty sure the definition of privilege is not lack of perspective. Maybe Zed Shaw should quit too, he seems to get a lot of online harassment, too bad his white straight male privilege isn't stopping it. There are a lot of shitty things in any community, lets focus on fixing the community and not trying to figure out which genders / sexual orientations / races are to blame. Maybe people should stop trolling ever…
Sorry, I should have written that a little more clearly. I wrote "By definition, privilege is a lack of perspective," but what I meant was, "By definition, privilege implies a lack of perspective." I feel like you may have misinterpreted my intention, though. You wrote " [let's not focus on] trying to figure out which genders / sexual orientations / races are to blame. " I certainly wasn't trying to blame any particu…
Is it really about emotions? I'm looking at the statistics for 2009/10 in my country[1] and it seems men are more than twice as likely to be murdered as women. I don't have statistics but I'd be quite surprised if women were actually more likely to be assaulted than men, particularly by non-partners, which is what we're talking about. Is the actual level of hazard not somewhat relevant, as well as the emotions? If (and you may disagree) the level of fear doesn't correspond to the level of hazard, is it not counterproductive to expound the idea that women are at constant risk of violence?
[1] http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-s...
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Sorry, I should have written that a little more clearly. I wrote "By definition, privilege is a lack of perspective," but what I meant was, "By definition, privilege implies a lack of perspective." I feel like you may have misinterpreted my intention, though. You wrote " [let's not focus on] trying to figure out which genders / sexual orientations / races are to blame. " I certainly wasn't trying to blame any particu…
> Shed Zaw can probably count on one hand how many times he's been afraid of being beaten, killed or raped--if the count is even greater than zero. Not so for most women. Remember, this is about emotions. Is it really about emotions? I'm looking at the statistics for 2009/10 in my country[1] and it seems men are more than twice as likely to be murdered as women. I don't have statistics but I'd be quite surprised if w…
Also, my focus on the terms "beaten, killed or raped" may have been more distracting than necessary, because we are talking about more than just physical oppression; there is also shaming, ostracism, objectification, and a host of other emotional attacks.
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Sorry, I should have written that a little more clearly. I wrote "By definition, privilege is a lack of perspective," but what I meant was, "By definition, privilege implies a lack of perspective." I feel like you may have misinterpreted my intention, though. You wrote " [let's not focus on] trying to figure out which genders / sexual orientations / races are to blame. " I certainly wasn't trying to blame any particu…
Some of what has happened to Zed Shaw really isn't acceptable, it is straight up harassment and not funny trolling. It is considered acceptable to threaten men with violence because they are men; it's the same as the pervasive belief that men cannot be raped and the idea is funny. If you haven't ever been afraid of being beaten, killed, or raped, that doesn't make you a man, that means you have had a very safe life.…
Other way around. It's a bit of a tortured metaphor, but it's not about women being weaker. Men are emotionally insulated by their privilege--it's an extra layer of resilience (the metal jaws) that we take for granted which makes it difficult for us to understand why people without it are having problems.
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> Shed Zaw can probably count on one hand how many times he's been afraid of being beaten, killed or raped--if the count is even greater than zero. Not so for most women. Remember, this is about emotions. Is it really about emotions? I'm looking at the statistics for 2009/10 in my country[1] and it seems men are more than twice as likely to be murdered as women. I don't have statistics but I'd be quite surprised if w…
I see what you're saying--if (and it seems likely) women really aren't at greater risk, we don't want to go around saying that they are. But, that's what I meant by "this is about emotions". For the purposes of this issue, it doesn't matter what the actual risk level is--the most relevant fact is that, for most women, it feels (emotionally) like they are constantly at risk. In the same way that a PR problem is still…
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Sorry, I should have written that a little more clearly. I wrote "By definition, privilege is a lack of perspective," but what I meant was, "By definition, privilege implies a lack of perspective." I feel like you may have misinterpreted my intention, though. You wrote " [let's not focus on] trying to figure out which genders / sexual orientations / races are to blame. " I certainly wasn't trying to blame any particu…
> Shed Zaw can probably count on one hand how many times he's been afraid of being beaten, killed or raped--if the count is even greater than zero. Not so for most women. Remember, this is about emotions. Is it really about emotions? I'm looking at the statistics for 2009/10 in my country[1] and it seems men are more than twice as likely to be murdered as women. I don't have statistics but I'd be quite surprised if w…
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Maybe they just disrespect him because... let's face it, surgically mutilating your penis, taking a bunch of hormones and demanding that everybody call you "she" is just plain weird , regardless of what current orthodoxy says.
".. not realizing it's the same person." He's talking about the difference between the response to a male and female, in other words highlighting sexism rather than transgenderphobia or whatever you call it. Thanks for putting yours on display though.
Joan Roughgarden (biologist, founder of the Earth Systems Program at Stanford) and Ben Barres (a neurobiologist also at Stanford) transitioned in opposite directions and reported the same phenomenon in mirror: Roughgarden saw people assuming her work was suddenly less important, Barres saw people in his field not realizing he was the same person and commenting that his research was so much better than his sister's. He authored a commentary in Nature 442 (p133-136 (13 July 2006), DOI:10.1038/442133a) that's worth reading. They're certainly not the only ones!
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Both. Very common problem: interviewers asking questions about who was going to take care of the kids. Actually happened: an interviewer displayed a picture of himself not wearing pants. That interview was in Chicago; I was in Michigan at the time, thankfully. I see no correlation between company size and occurrence of this stuff. I have friends who happen to be both notoriously successful in the tech field and femal…
I have to say that to me (a non-native speaker, a youngling, a geek) there's nothing offensive about "who's going to take care of the kids". If I had kids and a working wife, then got asked that question in an interview -- I better know how to answer it, if only for the sake of my kids, no? I'm also now scared that you get offended while I really don't want you to; that's not why I asked. I might be missing some conn…
See http://www.microsoft.com/business/en-us/resources/management... and http://www.focus.com/fyi/30-interview-questions-you-cant-ask... for some lists of questions that help illustrate this. Instead of asking a very personal question like "Do you have or plan to have children?" and extrapolating random stuff from the answer, you ask the directly useful question you really meant to ask: "Are you available to work overtime on occasion? Can you travel?"
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I say sexism is fucked up, and this guy blames me for sexism in the tech industry. No, you didn't say that. You said it was inevitable and that people should suck it up and stop harping on it. You're not the victim here.
I did say that people should suck it up. I was referring to ignoring the treatment (online) as a better form of dealing with it than running away. But at the same time that confronting the attackers would be a more proactive effort. Not to stop harping on it. I specifically said women should mobilize and work proactively to prevent sexism in the industry, which is far from 'stop harping on it'. But thanks for cherry…