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Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

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Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#21

Post by mbesto »

wpietri wrote: post #16

The conflict of interest here concerns me. I don't object to content marketing, but I'd rather a) you were clear from the start that you work for this company and are promoting its product, and b) that this "revolves around [...] using Cohere’s Embed endpoint", so that people can judge how much they want to "get into language models" with pay-per-character pricing, as opposed to something more open.

"Show HN"s regularly have commercial models behind them. Not sure what your stink is...this is normal.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#23

Post by victorianoi »

victorianoi wrote: post #22

Nice idea and analysis! I reproduced it as well with https://graphext.com and got similar clusters https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-kXsKezu2_S07rQn-0bjbHuUXHE...

BTW there is an implicit recency bias in the dataset, since 2017 the number of top 3K post became more frequently and the avg score is larger year after year as the community in HN grows:

- Number of top 3K per month of publishing - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1beAPP9ijruMUs5DN5wOVsBArvxP...

- Avg score of top 3K per month of publishing - https://drive.google.com/file/d/10nSIgH1a6DN6XrDU2DyMJTCgsIg...

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#24

Post by victorianoi »

victorianoi wrote: post #23
victorianoi wrote: post #22

Nice idea and analysis! I reproduced it as well with https://graphext.com and got similar clusters https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-kXsKezu2_S07rQn-0bjbHuUXHE...

BTW there is an implicit recency bias in the dataset, since 2017 the number of top 3K post became more frequently and the avg score is larger year after year as the community in HN grows: - Number of top 3K per month of publishing - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1beAPP9ijruMUs5DN5wOVsBArvxP... - Avg score of top 3K per month of publishing - https://drive.google.com/file/d/10nSIgH1a6DN6XrDU2DyMJTCgsIg...

and it also looks like most topics are constant over the years - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ilYn9cnEZwiH1FioUtU9ummhmvn...

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#25

Post by natch »

There's too much fixation with "top" in our industry. Top voted tends to mostly be a function of early posting. Later posts don't get votes because they simply were not seen. There seems to be a misreading on a mass scale of what "top" really indicates though; people think it means "quality" when it does not. Study after study, website after website, policy after policy, our online world is built on this fundamental misunderstanding of what is really going on. How do you avoid piling on to this misunderstanding?

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#26

Post by tra3 »

natch wrote: post #25

There's too much fixation with "top" in our industry. Top voted tends to mostly be a function of early posting. Later posts don't get votes because they simply were not seen. There seems to be a misreading on a mass scale of what "top" really indicates though; people think it means "quality" when it does not. Study after study, website after website, policy after policy, our online world is built on this fundamental…

Is there a name for this phenomenon so I can google further? Intuitively makes sense, because I’ve seen this before.

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#27

Post by wpietri »

mbesto wrote: post #21
wpietri wrote: post #16

The conflict of interest here concerns me. I don't object to content marketing, but I'd rather a) you were clear from the start that you work for this company and are promoting its product, and b) that this "revolves around [...] using Cohere’s Embed endpoint", so that people can judge how much they want to "get into language models" with pay-per-character pricing, as opposed to something more open.

"Show HN"s regularly have commercial models behind them. Not sure what your stink is...this is normal. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

"Normal" doesn't mean good, so that line of argument doesn't work for me.

But the specific "stink" I'm objecting to here is, as I said, a conflict of interest. In specific, saying, "If you've ever wanted to get into language models, this is a good place to start" purports to be neutral and helpful. When instead, this person is promoting a product. Maybe using a (to my eyes expensive) commercial service is the truly the best place to start learning that. Maybe this is truly the best service to learn it with. But we can't expect a fair answer to those questions from a person whose works at the company and whose apparent job is promoting the product that pays their salary.

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#28

Post by wpietri »

rmbyrro wrote: post #19
wpietri wrote: post #16

The conflict of interest here concerns me. I don't object to content marketing, but I'd rather a) you were clear from the start that you work for this company and are promoting its product, and b) that this "revolves around [...] using Cohere’s Embed endpoint", so that people can judge how much they want to "get into language models" with pay-per-character pricing, as opposed to something more open.

Do you advocate for the disclaimer only because 1) the sample uses their product or 2) just because they sell a product correlated to the topic? I see a lot of articles that fall into #2 being published here without a disclaimer. And I think a disclaimer isn't necessary for #2. Even for #1 I wouldn't bother, but I understand the expectation. Many advocate a lot against ads, targeting, etc. If we also advocate against…

I don't understand why you think asking that conflicts of interests being clearly disclosed is me wanting to "advocate against promotional content". Do you believe content marketing only works if it's quietly manipulative? That seems like a pretty grim take.

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#29

Post by wpietri »

jayalammar wrote: post #18
wpietri wrote: post #16

The conflict of interest here concerns me. I don't object to content marketing, but I'd rather a) you were clear from the start that you work for this company and are promoting its product, and b) that this "revolves around [...] using Cohere’s Embed endpoint", so that people can judge how much they want to "get into language models" with pay-per-character pricing, as opposed to something more open.

Thanks. I just added a disclosure to the comment (can't edit the parent anymore). The full embeddings are freely provided here without the need to use the service.

Thanks! I appreciate it.

Re: Show HN: Analyzing top HN posts with language models

#30

Post by nighthawk454 »

uniqueuid wrote: post #9
PaulHoule wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try t-SNE. I used to scoff at cluster plots until I saw those but with t-SNE… wow, those clusters are actually separated!

Are you sure t-SNE and UMAP actually perform very differently? Last I looked, they were somewhat comparable. [edit]: Seems they are similar for some purposes: https://blog.bioturing.com/2022/01/14/umap-vs-t-sne-single-c... Also interesting: Rapidsai has a cuda accelerated version of umap that is very fast (hdbscan as well BTW).

All these dimension reduction methods are extremely similar. The math essentially just preserves nearest neighbors, with a setting for how 'tight' you want the clusters to be.

Check out this image [1] and accompanying paper [2] for further reference

[1] https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-Unifying-Perspective...

[2] https://arxiv.org/abs/2007.08902

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