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Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

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Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#141

Post by Gnob »

> The big picture: Uyghurs and other marginalized groups with ties to China can face intimidation, state surveillance and threats to their family members in China when they speak out on U.S. campuses about oppression by the Chinese government.

> Multiple people present at the event described the Chinese students' reaction to NurMuhammad as "jeering," "taunts," "snickering" and "booing.".

As much as I love long discussions when it comes to technical topics I think this issue is pretty simple to solve, send them back to China. Is it unjust / unfair? imho, no it's not.

Because they won't be prosecuted or hurt anyways in China, they can complete their education and live a happy ever after under the CCP they so much -obviously- support.

And make an announcement, that any show of support for authoritarian regimes / bullying or any such behaviour would get them expelled.

They can just leave in silence if they fear the CCP might actually hurt their close ones, there is no need to taunt or show any symbol of aggression.

On the other hand, the Uygurs has been the actually oppressed ones, a Chinese person isn't going to die in China especially after the show they made in the University according to the article, they can go and support the CCP in China and they will probably even have more privileges than the average Chinese person.

If they're going to support the CCP anyways, why not support it in China?

at the very least, anyone acting with malice and a clear unexcused support for the CCP, such as taking down posters alone when nobody is watching etc, should be expelled and sent back to China. Even in the case of them being actually victims almost forced to preach the CCP, what good is it going to do if they're taunting others who are publicly speaking out in other parts of the world? If they do that in China they will actually be celebrated by the govt.

so I see no point of letting them stay personally, unless they do speak out against the regime or stay silent and mind themselves.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#142

Post by the_only_law »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #110
effingwewt wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is where I find myself as well. You are free to say things, you are not free of the consequences. I expect someone to deck me for saying certain things. Growing up in Texas we had a saying- 'Them's fightin' words.' ie if someone said something out of bounds, they were headed for a scrap, or at least that wad a very real possibility. Having said that I would still defend their right to talk shit. edit- screw canc…

> Growing up in Texas we had a saying- 'Them's fightin' words.' ie if someone said something out of bounds, they were headed for a scrap, or at least that wad a very real possibility. From a legal viewpoint, even if said speech meets the Chaplinsky definition of "fighting words", that does not exonerate or justify one man's violence against another. I have a hard time seeing that most would accept hitting a person as…

Especially when street fights can easily wind up a manslaughter or murder case.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#143

Post by the_only_law »

deltaonefour wrote: post #52
logicchains wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What motivated them? Likely he will give simpleton answers like "power corrupts" or dictatorships are evil without ever understanding the complexity of the situation. The motivation is very simple: the Uighurs started a separatist movement, and there's little the Chinese government hates more than separatist movements. Now, many governments in the world don't like separatist movements, but you don't see the Spanish…

Quoted post unavailable.

> Or china in response to a terrorist massacre, wages a campaign to assimilate, brainwash and sterilize an entire culture without any intention to start an actual military war. Which results in detainment and people losing their freedoms all in the name of preventing terrorism.

It's hard to attract sympathy towards your argument when you straight up admit that sterilization of an entire culture is going on, which yes indeed makes it worse than Afghanistan and moves way towards genocide.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#144

Post by zen_1 »

dvt wrote: post #93
sofixa wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From 1: > Neo-Nazis are attracted to the town because Hitler’s deputy Rudolf Hess was once buried there. Though his remains were exhumed in 2011 and his grave was destroyed, far-right extremists still flock to the town year after year And that's why all those dead after Nuremberg were cremated and their ashes were spread in rivers and seas. Nobody wants neo-Nazis shrines.

> Nobody wants neo-Nazis shrines. Ironic, considering the Pyramids at Giza are literal monuments to slavery. Free speech -- i.e. the free exchange of ideas, ergo the natural extension of freedom of thought -- is a fundamental and transcendental ideal, and it's a hill I've died on and gotten downvoted for plenty of times. Germany, Nazis, and the USA probably won't be around 200 millennia from now, but the ideal of fre…

Have you tried moving the pyramids? Pretty difficult I hear :)

On a more serious note, when I went to see the pyramids, the guide pointed out several rows of nearby tombs for the laborers who built the things, talked about how they were free skilled laborers, and in fact treated quite well (for the time at least).

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#145

Post by colordrops »

mariusor wrote: post #113
colordrops wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm disgusted with this thought process that has taken hold over the last several years. You decide the truth value of something and based on that you further decide that a topic is off limits. It's shockingly self-centered and leaves no room for the possiblity that you might be wrong about the matter, and that you are moving the goalposts for what is considered acceptable speech. The road to hell is paved…

> You decide the truth value of something and based on that you further decide that a topic is off limits I would normally agree with this viewpoint, but there are things which have an objective quality of being immoral. Supporting the persecution of a group of people because of their ethnicity (or whichever other criteria) is such a thing. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

You are wrong about that because it's not possible to know if something is true with certainty. Hearing about things in the news and social media doesn't make it true. See: Iraq WMD.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#146

Post by sofixa »

whimsicalism wrote: post #137
sofixa wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an individual for defamation? Yes. From the state for some very specific opinions (we should gas all the Jews)? Yes. But that's literally the same everywhere with free speech. The specifics vary slightly, e.g. in the US being a woman and topless, or saying you want to murder the US president is a crime, in France insulting Jews is a crime. There is no place on earth with absolute free speech.

You are drawing a false equivalence. 1. Being topless is both legal in plenty of states and also not a matter of speech. 2. There's a difference between directly saying you are going to kill someone or incite violence and expressing support for a political ideology. For instance, in Germany, the Communist Party is illegal - it is banned. In Germany, expressing an (awful) opinion that the Holocaust did not occur is il…

The approach is the same - speech is free* (* - exceptions apply).

The specifics of those exceptions are different. Germany's heavy-handed approach for some things (around Communists, Nazis, Holocaust) come directly from terrible historical experience they do not want to repeat. And that experience includes allowing Nazis to exploit the democratic system to seize power.

> There's a difference between directly saying you are going to kill someone or incite violence and expressing support for a political ideology

How big is the difference if the political ideology in question is violent by nature(e.g. Nazism)?

> In Germany, video games that even included the Nazis in any way were banned

That's untrue. Art and history teaching are explicit exceptions to the Nazi bans. It's just that some historical games, like Hearts of Iron 4, thread a fine line (is conquering the whole world with Nazi Germany glorifying Nazi Germany and their violence? No, but for some probably yes) and prefer to self-censor to avoid any potential issues.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#147

Post by whimsicalism »

kramerger wrote: post #138
whimsicalism wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This links to an article about Chinese students at GW. Do you mean to say this group of students transferred en masse from GW to Cornell or are you just saying they are the same group because they are both Chinese?

There is a connection, the article discusses it. Please read it again :)

Point it out to me?

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#148

Post by mariusor »

colordrops wrote: post #145
mariusor wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You decide the truth value of something and based on that you further decide that a topic is off limits I would normally agree with this viewpoint, but there are things which have an objective quality of being immoral. Supporting the persecution of a group of people because of their ethnicity (or whichever other criteria) is such a thing. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

You are wrong about that because it's not possible to know if something is true with certainty. Hearing about things in the news and social media doesn't make it true. See: Iraq WMD.

I am not arguing about something that is true or not. I am arguing that someone that supports an objectively immoral act is objectively immoral and even though they might be free to espouse that point of view, any private individual or organization is equally free in shunning them.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#149

Post by colordrops »

yorwba wrote: post #139
colordrops wrote: post #84

It really bothers me how people foam at the mouth about this when there is far more direct evidence of much worse abuses in Israel/Palestine than Xinjiang, but somehow Xinjiang is the next holocaust and China is Nazi Germany. CIA and State Department propaganda at work.

In response to your other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31691085 claiming that "No concrete evidence has ever been released that there is mass incarceration in Xinjiang." https://web.archive.org/web/20180921114505/http://www.xj.jcy... > 五年来，全区检察机关共批准逮捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人330918人 https://web.archive.org/web/20210811151913/https://www.spp.g... > 2013年至2017年，全国检察机关共批捕各类刑事犯罪嫌疑人453.1万人 Of 4.5 million arrests in all of…

Yes, but those stats are not too different from black people in the US. Is the US a Nazi country executing genocide? Read the rest of my other comment. I said that bad things were happening there, but that it's being exaggerated. You seem to agree.

Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate

#150

Post by colordrops »

lpcvoid wrote: post #118
colordrops wrote: post #84

It really bothers me how people foam at the mouth about this when there is far more direct evidence of much worse abuses in Israel/Palestine than Xinjiang, but somehow Xinjiang is the next holocaust and China is Nazi Germany. CIA and State Department propaganda at work.

Give me a break. Just because people point out that something is not good, it isn't invalid because worse things exist. Take off the conspiracy hat.

You need to lay off yourself. People didn't just point out that something is not good. They are claiming that it's the same as Nazi Germany and that you shouldn't even be allowed to discuss it or protest.
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