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No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

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Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#51

Post by nspattak »

hrgiger wrote: post #43
planetis wrote: post #13

Quoted post unavailable.

Heya Turkish guy here, some points you mention I agree (our secularism, administration), but I found your lobbying approach for cheering for war and weapons quite disturbing, I love Greek people, we have many commons and differences, when I share my projects or work publicly I always think there is many otherside think like me, peaceful minds concentrated on development rather than destruction. Elections are due we w…

Elections are coming in Greece as well.

Politicians on either side of the aegean have failed their people misserably and are apparently turning to nationalism/hatred for political gain.

I wish this is understood by both countries (yet I do not expect it...)

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#52

Post by ClumsyPilot »

planetis wrote: post #22
throw93232 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the tit…

> "hence the title of "the evasive neutral", showing it's opportunism."

Imagine you are in charge of a struggling nation, somewhat behind technologically, close to Germany and Italy, during the most destructive war in history.

In that situation, would you be eager to declare war on the axis powers, and condemn your people to suffering?

Even US wasn't keen to get involved untill war came to them - and they had technological parity and protection of the oceans..

You also have to realise that To non-europeans, for example folks in China, Nazi germany didn't look like 'absolute evil', it looked like a yet another war between colonial powers. They had fresh memory of atrocities commited by colonial powers which, to them, were not that different from Nazis's ones.

To them, Europe only cared about europe - when empire of Japan was doing genocide in China, noone cared.

The point is not to agree or disagree with this worldview, but you have to realise that world events don't look the same from dofferent corners.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#53

Post by ClumsyPilot »

throw93232 wrote: post #28
planetis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the tit…

..and Turky will start again shipping refugees from its "sovereign" territory. This clawn show is very expensive for both sides. Make a deal!

It's shameful that refugees are treated like this by both parties.

Soon climate crisis will produce anywhere between 100 million to a billion refugees. Will countries that polluted most take the most?

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#54

Post by baybal2 »

baud147258 wrote: post #2

I'm disappointed the article didn't have a link towards a copy of the book; at this point I think most copyright have expired, no? Here's one I found: http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:how_to_survive_under_si...

No post body was provided.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#55

Post by ClumsyPilot »

smcl wrote: post #39
causi wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. Heated comments aren't flagged and downvoted, but unpopular ones are. HN just has a very unique profile of what it considers unpopular opinions that aren't the same as American political issues. There are plenty of downvote squads who will mass-flag submissions they don't like. The comments on such submissions will oft…

You're right that things can get downvoted and flagged according to personal tastes (mention a figure like Marx or Tito without explicitly condemning them and watch the downvotes roll in for an idea of what the prevailing personal tastes here are) but my point is that overall politics is not at all off the table here, even when it's not totally civil.

Which is a shame because there is no real understanding of Marx as an economist as a scholar.

It's jusy mob mentality of Marz=Communism=(evil or usefull idiot)

Very few people know that Marx himself was puzzled as to why his book became so popular in Russia, and how little his writing has in common with ideology thay followed

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#56

Post by ihaveajob »

naveen99 wrote: post #46

i wonder how countries with mandatory military service deal with gun control for people after their mandatory military service is over.

During military service, you're typically not home with service weapons. You're stationed wherever you're receiving training, and that's where weapons remain.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#57

Post by bluedino »

ihaveajob wrote: post #56
naveen99 wrote: post #46

i wonder how countries with mandatory military service deal with gun control for people after their mandatory military service is over.

During military service, you're typically not home with service weapons. You're stationed wherever you're receiving training, and that's where weapons remain.

The army in Switzerland does exactly this. They can mobilize faster with the guns and ammo at home.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#58

Post by planetis »

nspattak wrote: post #51
hrgiger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heya Turkish guy here, some points you mention I agree (our secularism, administration), but I found your lobbying approach for cheering for war and weapons quite disturbing, I love Greek people, we have many commons and differences, when I share my projects or work publicly I always think there is many otherside think like me, peaceful minds concentrated on development rather than destruction. Elections are due we w…

Elections are coming in Greece as well. Politicians on either side of the aegean have failed their people misserably and are apparently turning to nationalism/hatred for political gain. I wish this is understood by both countries (yet I do not expect it...)

> I wish this is understood by both countries (yet I do not expect it...)

In the Greek side there hasn't been a single populist "call to arms" by any political party. Greece is not the one that would start an incident, since it's against it's interests and it's advised to remain calm by the media. Recently the Greek PM responded to Erdogan's previous petty statements [1] with just "we are neighbours, we always need to talk, and we always want to keep channels of communication open". Overall their responses in the media are mild and far from nationalistic.

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/world/turkeys-erdogan-says-greek-pm-... [2]: https://www.amna.gr/en/article/649386/PM-Mitsotakis-If-Erdog...

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#59

Post by jean_tta »

nspattak wrote: post #50
nradov wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Overall the Spartans weren't even much more effective. They took some losses battling other Greek city-states. Their martial prowess has been somewhat exaggerated. https://acoup.blog/2019/09/20/collections-this-isnt-sparta-p...

I think that their martial discipline and military life style is what they are famous for. Again, I think that the failure of the effectiveness of their of their military training simply shows that in war there are a lot of factors. Sth that can be seen even in our times, the US effectively lost in Vietnam or Iraq even though their military was far superior.

You take for granted that the Spartans were good at war, and reconcile "Spartans good at war" and "Spartans lost to other city-states" by concluding that there are "a lot of factors". Why not revise your assumption that Spartans were good at war?

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#60

Post by planetis »

nspattak wrote: post #51
hrgiger wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heya Turkish guy here, some points you mention I agree (our secularism, administration), but I found your lobbying approach for cheering for war and weapons quite disturbing, I love Greek people, we have many commons and differences, when I share my projects or work publicly I always think there is many otherside think like me, peaceful minds concentrated on development rather than destruction. Elections are due we w…

Elections are coming in Greece as well. Politicians on either side of the aegean have failed their people misserably and are apparently turning to nationalism/hatred for political gain. I wish this is understood by both countries (yet I do not expect it...)

The previous night's outrageous addressing to the Greek people from Erdogan in Greek, where he threatened for a disaster like the burning of Smyrna a century ago.

[1]: https://twitter.com/RTErdogan/status/1534954757713960962

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