While I do sympathize with this student, you have to be careful when criticizing a hostile government you are a citizen of. Only in the United States do we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion.
> Only in the United States do we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion. I'm sorry, but were you educated in the US? That's just blatantly false, and on the level of a Russian praising their army's success in Ukraine. In the EU, Canada, Australia, UK, New Zealand and some other countries individuals are protected from retaliatio…
Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
101–110 of 198 posts
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a current senior at Cornell and I'm conflicted. > On Friday, the administration told students in an emailed statement "we have an expectation and responsibility to engage with viewpoints that we disagree with," but that "we must also respect that walkouts are a legitimate form of protest and an appropriate expression of disapproval." I like free speech as much as the next Hacker News user, but many of the actions…
Sorry but I'm disgusted with this thought process that has taken hold over the last several years. You decide the truth value of something and based on that you further decide that a topic is off limits. It's shockingly self-centered and leaves no room for the possiblity that you might be wrong about the matter, and that you are moving the goalposts for what is considered acceptable speech. The road to hell is paved…
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#103I think leaving en masse from a lecture/speech that you ideologically disagree with is likely one of the few permissible forms of protest in a university context.
Agreed, but the same group also do this > Some Chinese international students at universities in the U.S. and Canada have reported anti-Beijing speech to university authorities as a form of anti-Chinese racism, or they reported Uyghurs and Chinese dissidents on campus to Chinese diplomatic officials. Can you have freedom of speach while trying to take it away from others?
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
And there we are again: Demonstrating that an absolutist take on free speech tends to destroy free speech itself in the long run. „The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the…
I don't think it is a paradox. As soon as your practice of free speech limits other people's ability to practice free speech, you are not actually practicing free speech, but attacking people's freedom of speech.
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should watch this couse: http://justiceharvard.org/justicecourse/ . Free humans are not free to kill or enslave. Free speech is not free to hate.
Seems like an Ethics 101 course, I have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I am intimately familiar with arguments on both sides, and I think you should read some John Stuart Mill, specifically his seminal On Liberty[1] (maybe not as engaging as a YouTube video course, though). Free speech absolutism is a pretty hardline position, but I think it's probably correct. [1] https://www.econlib.org/library/Mill/mlLbty.…
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In the United States, and many other countries, we have such protections in place to prevent the government from retaliating against the individual for voicing a critical opinion. The same cannot be said for countries like China, Russia, Belarus, etc. There, I fixed it for you. But it's also naive to think that the government cannot make your life impossible if it's really motivated to do so, even in the US, despit…
Well, that's what the US is currently weaponizing the USD to do. Like when they froze Russia out of the global financial system, but France and Germany kept paying them for natgas and oil.
Most EU countries keep paying Russia for gas and oil (as an exception to the banking sanctions) because they are really dependent on it, not because they don't want to weaponize the Euro. France is not much dependent on Russian imports though, but Germany is along with Italy, the Netherlands and Hungary mostly.
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry but I'm disgusted with this thought process that has taken hold over the last several years. You decide the truth value of something and based on that you further decide that a topic is off limits. It's shockingly self-centered and leaves no room for the possiblity that you might be wrong about the matter, and that you are moving the goalposts for what is considered acceptable speech. The road to hell is paved…
Free speech absolutionist, like you, also seem to be against the consequences of that speech, such as being "cancelled". I am for both free speech and getting cancelled for it. In this way, standards acceptable to our society can be policed without interferance from the government.
I expect someone to deck me for saying certain things.
Growing up in Texas we had a saying- 'Them's fightin' words.'
ie if someone said something out of bounds, they were headed for a scrap, or at least that wad a very real possibility.
Having said that I would still defend their right to talk shit.
edit- screw cancel culture though, that shit ruins lives over even perceived slights. I don't believe any adult hasn't said something stupid or asinine we regret now. The thought that can ruin a life or career is crazy. If you don't like what someone says don't listen. If they aren't inciting violence or something.
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#108Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right wing activists have been doing this kinda stuff wrt Israel on campuses for decades. I agree, this kind of intolerance should be stamped out. The question is: whose morals become law?
If you're in the US: https://constitution.congress.gov/constitution/amendment-1/ > Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. Emphasis mine. There is a beautiful expansion by Blackstone. It…
This doesn't seem right. Firstly, we generally operate under the principle that laws are created by the populace, not "one man", the censor. That seems to contradict the idea that a control on freedom of speech would be up to the whims of one person, if the censor is restricted in his activities by the voting populace and the lawmakers they elect. Secondly, this type of restriction has precedent in several other important areas of life, such as food and drugs. While many people disagree with the FDA's decisions, very few people argue for its abolition in its role as a 'censor' of which products can be sold and in what quantities on the American market.
Of course, the usual retort would be "I trust the state to regulate food and drugs more than I trust it to regulate speech", but to convince someone else of that point, you'd have to also provide evidence and reasoning that our hypothetical censor cannot be trusted to censor according to the law that the citizens vote for via their representatives. Another retort would be "Free speech is more important than food and drug availability", but that statement implicitly admits there's an issue with any food regulation, it's just not as important as speech, which leads to the question of why so few free speech absolutists care about abolishing the FDA.
I haven't really seen any convincing argument for a slippery slope when it comes to regulation of speech, nor any reasoned argument on why there ought to be an absolute constitutional protection on speech. That said, I'm not personally in love with the idea of a censor, as I've seen that censors in other countries have practiced unjustified censorship - but that seems like a problem with the democratic process and oversight rather than the idea of a censor.
Re: Chinese students at Cornell “taunt” Uyghur classmate
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Free speech absolutionist, like you, also seem to be against the consequences of that speech, such as being "cancelled". I am for both free speech and getting cancelled for it. In this way, standards acceptable to our society can be policed without interferance from the government.
This is where I find myself as well. You are free to say things, you are not free of the consequences. I expect someone to deck me for saying certain things. Growing up in Texas we had a saying- 'Them's fightin' words.' ie if someone said something out of bounds, they were headed for a scrap, or at least that wad a very real possibility. Having said that I would still defend their right to talk shit. edit- screw canc…
From a legal viewpoint, even if said speech meets the Chaplinsky definition of "fighting words", that does not exonerate or justify one man's violence against another. I have a hard time seeing that most would accept hitting a person as an acceptable response to what is perceived to be distasteful speech. Millions of people lambasted Will Smith not so long ago for doing just that.