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Always Own Your Platform (2019)

alwaysownyourplatform.com

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Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#111

Post by SnowHill9902 »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #66
bragr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are using Cloudflare's specialized security services, CDN is pretty interchangeable and easy to switch between. You can ever do dynamic DNS things to use multiple CDNs at the same time and shift different traffic segments onto different providers if you are into that sort of things, or tier one CDN behind another to act as a mid tier. I don't really understand why the decentralized internet folks harp on C…

> I don't really understand why the decentralized internet folks harp on CDNs +1,000,000 here. CDNs are exactly a mechanism for distributing content around the world in order to serve users locally. It's exactly decentralization! And, as you point out, the industry harbors healthy competition.

Distributed physically but not from an ownership standpoint.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#112

Post by heywoodlh »

rapind wrote: post #108
heywoodlh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just like security, you settle for the risk you can afford and are comfortable with Right, I totally agree. What I'm not a fan of is this site actively encouraging people to call out others for not owning their own content. If we are gonna compare to security, it would be like suggesting everyone should adhere to the same threat model -- which just isn't practical. > The cloud muddies your grasp of the risks though…

> Are you saying "you" generally or me specifically? Generally, as in all of us.

Ah, yeah. I see what you mean.

I run a K8s cluster at home (I also work with AWS EKS) and in a lot of ways I see the upsides of what you gain with K8s. I also see why a ton of people won't ever need the complexity of K8s and I can see how the complexity/downsides would outweigh the benefits in the majority of situations.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#113

Post by crabmusket »

heywoodlh wrote: post #86
bragr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you are using Cloudflare's specialized security services, CDN is pretty interchangeable and easy to switch between. You can ever do dynamic DNS things to use multiple CDNs at the same time and shift different traffic segments onto different providers if you are into that sort of things, or tier one CDN behind another to act as a mid tier. I don't really understand why the decentralized internet folks harp on C…

> I don't really understand why the decentralized internet folks harp on CDNs For sure, I was just using it as an example on how subjective "owning your platform" can be. I actually have zero problems with Cloudflare, CDNs, etc. If I did have a problem with it and you disagreed, wouldn't that still illustrate my point that "ownership" is subjective and opinionated?

> how subjective "owning your platform" can be

I think your point is a good one, but I don't entirely agree. I think the comment you were replying to suggests an objective criterion:

> CDN is pretty interchangeable and easy to switch between

So I think there is a real basis by which you can objectively decide how much of your platform you need to own. Outsource commodity components (Linux servers, CDN and static hosting, managed database as a service maybe?) but don't get locked into proprietary components (hypothetical e.g.: writing all your blog posts in the Medium editor, where you can't access the source if they remove the "export as markdown" button).

Of course there are nuances, and we can argue over exactly how commodified a particular capability is, but I don't think that makes it subjective. Maybe each person prefers different tradeoffs on a subjective basis, but can probably regard the facts objectively (e.g. count the number of managed database providers, decide it's acceptably commodified, but still run your own database server anyway because it's interesting).

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#114

Post by SnowHill9902 »

lmm wrote: post #105
spatley wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The day cloudflare starts filtering individual pieces of content, I would get out fast. FB, twitter, et. al. show me what they think will keep me looking at them for as long as possible. It is only coincidence that it is sometimes content I actually want. If I can get all my friends to just post by RSS I don’t need or want anything else those platforms do.

How are you defining "filtering individual pieces of content"? Cloudflare kicked off The Daily Stormer and acknowledged that they were doing so as their own choice for political reasons.

MITMing and filtering or blocking fragments of a request.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#115

Post by webmaven »

heywoodlh wrote: post #99
webmaven wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm being nitpicky but it feels off to me to call people out on owning their own platform but then use Cloudflare's CDN instead of running their own. Infrastructure isn't a platform, and vice versa. If Cloudflare started to make editorial decisions about which web traffic to "promote" to users, there would be hell to pay.

> Infrastructure isn't a platform, and vice versa. I gave this some thought and after a bit I disagree with this. Wasn't Parler an example of infrastructure being used to editorialize _against_ specific opinions and ideas?[1] As I understand it, they were kicked off of AWS and refused by multiple infrastructure providers for hosting content that was perceived as offensive and potentially dangerous. Is that not an exa…

> Wasn't Parler an example of infrastructure being used to editorialize _against_ specific opinions and ideas?[1] As I understand it, they were kicked off of AWS and refused by multiple infrastructure providers for hosting content that was perceived as offensive and potentially dangerous. Is that not an example of infrastructure being part of the platform?

Sure. Businesses have always tried to have it both ways, and really like being necessary infrastructure while still having the option to refuse service. And, to be fair, AWS (and Cloudflare) aren't quite at the point where they are going to be publicly regulated utilities that no longer have the option of refusing to provide service (like an electricity or phone service provider).

But they are getting closer to that every day, and eventually we'll stop talking about IaaS and start talking about IaaU (once most other providers give up the Tesla-vs-Edison fight and concede that AWS has defined the APIs that have become the defacto standards they need to copy).

But even in a hosting-as-regulated-utility (or common-carrier, which is the relevant term from the transportation and communication industries) world, there are still exceptions and there are lots of things that in the name of public safety etc. you aren't allowed to do when using these services, and limits that are imposed. I don't really expect utility services like compute, storage, edge caching, content replication and distribution, etc. to be exceptions to that.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#116

Post by mission_failed »

benoliver999 wrote: post #8

Really hard for non-techies; even a hosted WordPress isn't easy to use. I've been asked a few times 'I want to write online, what do I do?' and it's hard to find easy to use answers that don't involve vendor lock-in. Or me having to provide support forever. SSGs with plain text files are brilliant once you are set up, but it's a big hurdle getting there. Best I can do is try to find platforms with sane exit strategie…

Installing and managing anything computer related is so hard these days. Take programming for example.

I started many years ago on C. I could literally copy a compiler executable out of an archive and it's ready to go.

PHP was an apt install command. Want to use it on the web or with a database? A couple of more install commands. Guides were simple to follow, and they worked.

I'm trying to install Python for my daughter, and f me it's like pulling teeth.

The official installer is apparently the wrong way, you should use xyz package manager. The guides that people recommend just don't work, weird errors show up. Searching online leads to others with similar problems, but the always recommended guides are never updated. It's frustrating spending an hour fixing one error message, then another pops up. All I want is to install the damn thing.

I've worked as a software engineer and as a documentation writer, and I struggle to deal with this stuff. Nothing just works, even a simple website now is a massiveness stack of stuff that breaks for weird reasons and is really hard to diagnose if you don't deal with it all the time.

Right now I'm trying to set up Unity3d to build to iPhone... It's like researching an arcane magical spell. There seems to be no clear guide to how things are supposed to be set up. I'm now watching bloody YouTube videos on it, and despite following the exact same steps using the same software versions suddenly they have settings I don't, where did they come from who knows. It's never explained and you end up trawling through forums to find the nugget that explains exactly what thing you have to do.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#117

Post by urlwolf »

hsn915 wrote: post #32

As others have pointed out, there's currently no solution that allows common people to self host. There's a minimum level of linux/sysadmin/devops expertise requried to setup and maintain a self hosted website. I've written a somewhat long essay about this problem: https://hasen.substack.com/simple-self-hosting A solution is possible but no one is working on it yet as far as I can tell. Instead, everyone wants to mak…

Have you seen cloudron.io? They are spot on solving the problem you describe

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#118

Post by heywoodlh »

crabmusket wrote: post #113
heywoodlh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understand why the decentralized internet folks harp on CDNs For sure, I was just using it as an example on how subjective "owning your platform" can be. I actually have zero problems with Cloudflare, CDNs, etc. If I did have a problem with it and you disagreed, wouldn't that still illustrate my point that "ownership" is subjective and opinionated?

> how subjective "owning your platform" can be I think your point is a good one, but I don't entirely agree. I think the comment you were replying to suggests an objective criterion: > CDN is pretty interchangeable and easy to switch between So I think there is a real basis by which you can objectively decide how much of your platform you need to own. Outsource commodity components (Linux servers, CDN and static host…

That's a really good point. I could definitely see interchangeable tooling being a good criteria for owning your platform. I feel like I've never described it that way before but that is totally how I determine what is going to be a part of my tech stack. I.E. "Is it possible to self host this tooling/workflow?", "Are there competitors?" are some of the questions I ask myself before adopting a tool or workflow. Being able to self host my critical applications is a big deal even if I don't choose to self host all of them.

Again, very good point and I feel like I can totally get on board with this definition of ownership.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#119

Post by tootie »

I think everyone reading this as "host your own servers" is missing the point. This more about owning your relationship with your users. Running a fully managed website with video content and a donation form is owning your platform even if you use nothing but SaaS products. Posting to YouTube is losing your platform.

One of my company's big products is podcasts. Podcasts are traditionally distributed via RSS. So long as we have an RSS feed of our audio and a website under a domain name we own, then we own our platform. The mechanics are immaterial. We are paying vendors for services but we own our data and our relationship to users. Losing our platform would be becoming a Spotify exclusive. Then Spotify owns our platform and we are we just get a cut.

Re: Always Own Your Platform (2019)

#120

Post by stitched2gethr »

bumper_crop wrote: post #31

From 2006 to 2014 I owned my own platform. Several actually. But I turned them down after it became a lot of work to maintain. At the time, it wasn't so obvious the web was dying, but in hindsight I probably helped kill it. In the beginning the web was so new, and growing so fast, with new things, amazing sites, and more people getting online. Like all things in life, competition arises, and better sites started gett…

> People's expectations for what a website could offer rose tremendously, and would abandon a site if it wasn't up to snuff.

Amazon.com is basic text and image elements on a white background. The full-feature sites often just look like blown up versions of the mobile sites.

I believe there are multiple issues with owning your platform but I'm not sure this is the defining factor, at least anymore.

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