Insurance, licensure, and NIMBY pressure.
Previously in nuclear industry.
Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
281–290 of 512 posts
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
This study from MIT found that the LCOE of fully renewable energy production, backed by LI batteries would be $3000/MWh vs $2400/MWh for hydrogen instead of batteries for storage: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/08/20210829-mitei.html Either alternative is about 15x to 50x more expensive than Nuclear, though....
That's grossly excessive. This website lets you look at optimization vs. actual historical weather data and reaches a much lower cost. BTW, you use both batteries AND storage; their combination can be cheaper than either alone. You also store the hydrogen underground rather than above ground. https://model.energy/
I agree that a combination of batteries and hydrogen would be a bit cheaper, but generally I would trust the MIT study over the model above, that states directly that it is a toy model.
It's fun to play with, though, so definitely upvoted.
Do you have an alternative peer reviewed study to support the conclusions?
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Construction costs are only part of the picture and utility operators are well aware that they need to look at lifecycle costs. This includes everything from costs of fuel rods (look at the historically volatile uranium market), availability of large volumes of cooling water (see more frequent droughts), maintenance costs (maintenance being a major factor in the retirement of California's nuclear power plants), secur…
> the cost of storing fuel rods onsite for decades This environmental remediation cost is generally missing in comparisons with all other energy sources.
It’s generally missing from the other energy sources as well.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why should states invest it's taxpayer money into overpriced and slow technology when there are cheaper and fast improving alternatives?
Hedging your bets. We know nuclear works. Grid-scale energy storage for renewables still feels far fetched. Maybe it's not. Either way, we should not put all our eggs in one basket.
No, it also works:
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/04/austr...
We just need a lot more of it, but it definitely works.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Steve Holliday, CEO National Grid: “The idea of large power stations for baseload is outdated”" https://energypost.eu/interview-steve-holliday-ceo-national-...
This is a sales pitch from someone who makes a living from selling grid capacity.
But is it true or not?
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nuclear waste is only a problem if you don’t allow breeder reactors. Otherwise it is a fuel resource and an asset, not a liability.
Nuclear waste isn't a problem if you drill a hole that's deep enough, encase the waste in a "dry cask", and drop it in the hole. Kyle Hill did a great video on this... "We solved nuclear waste decades ago" => https://youtu.be/4aUODXeAM-k
Or just drop it in the ocean, as US, Brits and Russians have preferred in the past.
But this has nothing to do with construction cost.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
This study from MIT found that the LCOE of fully renewable energy production, backed by LI batteries would be $3000/MWh vs $2400/MWh for hydrogen instead of batteries for storage: https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/08/20210829-mitei.html Either alternative is about 15x to 50x more expensive than Nuclear, though....
I thought the article we are replying to said >>$4000+/MWh for nuclear not including financing.
No, it is saying that it is currently about $6000000/MW construction cost. Then you devide by number of hours of operations to get the cost per MW/h. (Not adjusted for interest rate.)
The LCOE of new nuclear plants have estimates ranging from less than $30/MWh to around $150/MWh, while estimates for the cost of plants built a few decades ago end up at around $40-60/MWh, from the numbers I've seen.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know why you say you can't throttle nuclear up and down. All thermal plants have inertia, but nuclear is if anything easier to throttle than fossil fuels. There's a lot of numbers, and comments from nuclear plant operators, in this Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/NuclearPower/comments/m0rwso/how_fa...
> I don't know why you say you can't throttle nuclear up and down. All thermal plants have inertia, but nuclear is if anything easier to throttle than fossil fuels. In that case why don't we let the market build nuclear plants without any state guarantees or insurance and they can simply "throttle up" when they're required. No need to fix a strike price for decades before investors are interested. I'm sure it makes f…
Nuclear has very low fuel costs, under 1%. So it really doesnt make sense to throttle them unless the price goes negative.
Having an upfront guaranteed price is just a way to spread the construction cost over more time.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ...waste disposal are so expensive. Until there are higher costs for CO2 emissions... Perhaps we should also examine the requirements and costs associated with storing waste from coal-fired power plants. Oft overlooked in favor of the fuel rod boogeyman. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/coal-... If we treated such waste with the care and security it deserved, the cost equation may balance out…
Yes. The problem with nuclear is basically twofold: first, the approval and regulatory process is deliberately cumbersome and in obvious need of reform. Treating every plant as a one-off design rather than standardizing has enormously inflated costs. And generally much higher scrutiny requirements for new designs have strangled the ability to roll out better/safer designs. It's very similar to what happens in the FAA…
Doesn't seem to have helped any at Vogtle.
Re: Why are nuclear power construction costs so high?
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Solar is great at small scale, but at utility/grid scale, that means needing to ramp up storage too. The grid doesn't currently have much storage capacity (batteries, pumped hydro, phase shifting materials, etc.) to support current needs, much less future needs if we want to phase out fossil fuels. Getting the lithium and cobalt infrastructure up to scale takes time and has a lot of geopolitical considerations. It's…
Isn't this the crux of the argument for investing more money into solar/wind/storage vs nuclear. The solar and wind stuff is already cheap enough, so its storage vs nuclear. Will nuclear get cheaper faster than grid-scale batteries? There is only so much capital that can be invested, and potential advancements in batteries are looking a lot more promising than advancements in nuclear. I think the lion's share of mone…
Batteries are the most expensive storage. They cost per kWh stored, while others cost mainly only per W inserted or extracted. Only a minuscule fraction of utility scale storage will ever be batteries, so even mentioning batteries only details discussion.