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Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#51

Post by windowsrookie »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #8
MBCook wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was happening as often on Volvos or GM vehicles don’t you think they would be looking into it too?

Other automaker AEB (automatic emergency braking) systems have the same stationary object detection deficiency and specifically indicate that the system can fail under these circumstances [1]. Tesla gets called out because their autosteer is so good at lane keeping, comparatively speaking. Their new high resolution radar [2] (Phoenix) they’ve registered with the FCC, as well as a retrofit campaign across the fleet, w…

GM's "Super Cruise" uses lidar map data, radar, cameras, and has an interior camera monitoring the driver to make sure they are paying attention.

Tesla's don't.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#52

Post by MengerSponge »

polski-g wrote: post #12
aeternum wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. You rarely see crashes of other vehicles make the press, but with Teslas you do. Tesla articles get views because of both the Tesla haters and fanboys, makes financial sense for news sites to publish them. That increased press leads to increased investigations.

Tesla has sold more self driving cars than all other manufacturers combined. Of course you would hear more about Tesla.

Hahahaha Tesla has sold zero Level 5 cars. They've sold a bunch of Level 2 automated cars, same as VW, GM, Volvo, Subaru, etc.

Those other manufacturers have more robust legal teams, so they advertise their cars capabilities a bit more honestly.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#53

Post by PKop »

Sakos wrote: post #13
renewiltord wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all benefited from our ancestors killing opposing tribes so I'm going to ignore that too. If everyone you know is pure, you're doing better than me. No one mentioned racism? Then what's apartheid, mate. Come off it.

Our ancestors, sure. But my dad wasn't a rich white guy from apartheid SA who invested in my first company and financed who knows what else. ... you're saying it's racist of me to mention he's from an extremely racist system that reserved land and particular careers for members of a particular racial classification? Are you okay? Are you on the right site?

>Our ancestors sure

So your lineage won some and lost some yes? What is the point of saying at one time your people benefited from conquest but this other time you didn't? So what?

Sounds like cope and sour grapes. He's a successful, wealthy, and accomplished man. That's a good thing. Why would anyone want to be on the losing side of the equation? Are you ok?

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#54

Post by kybernetikos »

Manuel_D wrote: post #2

I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo.

It'll be a few years before we have definite data, but back in 2018 there was reason to think that the number of driver fatalities per million vehicle years was significantly worse in teslas than in comparable cars. https://medium.com/@MidwesternHedgi/teslas-driver-fatality-r...

Some luxury car models have incredibly low driver fatality rates regardless of cruise control activation. Just the fatal stories I've seen reported on hackernews take tesla out of the top bracket for safety.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#55

Post by jstream67 »

mupuff1234 wrote: post #41
jstream67 wrote: post #16

Sometimes this stuff just seems like a government shakedown. The NHTSA and the Biden administration in general is bitterly anti Tesla https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-fsd-bias-nhtsa-saf... (obviously a biased source -but worth a read)

So they appointed a person who cares about safety to be a safety advisor? How dare they.

Here are some quotes from the article for you. The concern is not that she cares about safety, but that she is very strongly biased against Tesla and has a financial interest in promoting other companies.

"The same goes for her stance regarding CEO Elon Musk. In March 2020, for example, Dr. Cummings seemingly joked about needing someone to stop her from punching Elon Musk in the face. "

"It should be noted that Dr. Cummings’ seat at Veoneer was not disclosed when she published a paper (which was later updated to remove inaccurate details about a fatal Tesla crash) criticizing systems such as Autopilot for their possible dangers. And so far, the incoming NHTSA senior safety adviser has not shared if she would be leaving her post at the Swedish LIDAR company, especially since she would soon be advising a US safety agency on driver-assist systems that adopt both LIDAR and non-LIDAR solutions. "

"Missy Cummings receives around $400,000 worth of stock in Swedish LIDAR company Veoneer per year as compensation for her role as a non-employee member of the board."

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#56

Post by kube-system »

jjoonathan wrote: post #47
kube-system wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe all we need is a requirement for type certification on people's drivers licenses before they can drive a Tesla.

Doesn't Tesla have driver monitoring and a driver score? So to use autopilot, you not only have to roughly pay attention, but also be pretty good at driving in general to use the beta? Or did they get rid of that? It sounded like a good compromise to me.

No, that's for their "full self driving" system.

There are tutorials on social media for how to circumvent the driver monitoring for 'autopilot'. See for example, the instance in the article of a Tesla going down the highway with the driver in the back seat.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#57

Post by [deleted] »

ra7 wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other automaker AEB (automatic emergency braking) systems have the same stationary object detection deficiency and specifically indicate that the system can fail under these circumstances [1]. Tesla gets called out because their autosteer is so good at lane keeping, comparatively speaking. Their new high resolution radar [2] (Phoenix) they’ve registered with the FCC, as well as a retrofit campaign across the fleet, w…

> Their new high resolution radar [2] (Phoenix) they’ve registered with the FCC, as well as a retrofit campaign across the fleet, will likely resolve this gap. Is a retrofit confirmed or is it just your assumption? They even sold hundreds of thousands of "vision only" cars (including mine) with Musk and Karpathy claiming radar is useless for them. Funny how they've walked it back with this new radar news.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#58

Post by colinmhayes »

throwaway320923 wrote: post #14
Manuel_D wrote: post #2

I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo.

It's a good question, and I'm dismayed to see the various knee-jerk reactions to it. Seems to get caught up in the pro/anti-Tesla/Musk/blah noise. No, thank you. Here's the thing - people get in accidents all the time when assistance features like ABS, lane keeping, traction control, TACC, good-old-fashioned dumb cruise control, etc. are actively altering the vehicle's performance and behavior. So when we consider Te…

Tesla markets their system as autopilot and full self driving. They are misleading people into believing the car is capable of driving itself. No one reads TACC/lane keeping and thinks "cool I can just play on my phone", But tons of tesla owners think that. It's not a coincidence.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#60

Post by malcolmgreaves »

UX and interfaces are important. If it's marketed and described as "autopilot" or "full self driving," then a reasonable person expects it to automatically pilot the vehicle I'm normal driving situations. Tesla is unfortunately trapped in a all too common story of AI development: over-hype and under-deliver.
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