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Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

theguardian.com

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Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#31

Post by Domenic_S »

Sakos wrote: post #9
renewiltord wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do collective punishment. The NYT piece on him showed that he wasn't a racist.

Nobody mentioned racism? Also, Musk benefited from his father's wealth.

I dare you to prove how; the only verifiable account is that he had enough privilege to immigrate to Canada with like $1,000 to his name. He took student loans. People who knew him back then characterize him as almost pathologically frugal.

The "elon and his brother walking around with emeralds in their pockets" thing is a story straight from 1 interview with his estranged father and verified by nobody. The nearest verifiable records show lifetime earnings from the mine of ~$400k before tax.

What's more, elon's dad was elected to local office on an anti-apartheid ticket, which was a bit of a dangerous move for him.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#32

Post by Manuel_D »

MBCook wrote: post #5
Manuel_D wrote: post #2

I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo.

If this was happening as often on Volvos or GM vehicles don’t you think they would be looking into it too?

Do neglectful people turn on cruise control and then rear-end other cars in their Volvos and GMs? I'm going to guess that there's plenty of such instances, but they're not as headline-prone as crashing Teslas. Hence, why this data would be useful for comparison.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#33

Post by PKop »

Manuel_D wrote: post #28
itsoktocry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo. This is so disingenuous. Go on YouTube and search for people "self-driving" in their Teslas, then do the same for people doing anything remotely the same with standard cruise control. Tesla and its fanatics want…

Is this actually a problem with tesla marketing? Or is it a problem with people being dumb? An aircraft autopilot will happily fly you straight into a mountain. It just holds altitude and bearing. Everyone I know with a Tesla exclusively uses autopilot on the highway in between exits. I'm pretty baffled as to how some people think it's fully autonomous driving, and I'm dubious as to how culpable Tesla is for that ign…

It's both, and unless you have a solution to eliminating stupid people, then the tech needs to be regulated out of the market so innocent people don't get killed on the roads due to this stupidity.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#34

Post by nitwit005 »

jstream67 wrote: post #16

Sometimes this stuff just seems like a government shakedown. The NHTSA and the Biden administration in general is bitterly anti Tesla https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-autopilot-fsd-bias-nhtsa-saf... (obviously a biased source -but worth a read)

If I go looking about articles related to the Biden administration and Tesla, I mostly see articles about Musk complaining the Biden administration was ignoring them. That's not what I'd expect if they were "bitterly anti Tesla".

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#35

Post by concinds »

Manuel_D wrote: post #2

I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo.

The fundamental problem is that Tesla's Autopilot is defective. It has repeatedly steered people into highway barriers, and sometimes has no clue which lane it's in or where it's going. See the opening of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMvdI8nSAJE

An Apple employee was killed by his Tesla, which always veered into a highway barrier after an OTA update (he was distracted one day and didn't prevent the crash, died as a result).[0] The video above also involves the results of an OTA update.

There are more reports of dangerous Autopilot behavior than any other brand's cruise control that I'm aware of.

The problem here isn't neglectful driving, it's that you may be driving in a straight line on a highway for half an hour, distracted and "lulled" by the monotony and predictability of the road, and in a split second your car veers off and tries to kill you because it no longer knows where the lane is.

Now drivers need to not only pay attention to the road and over cars, but also be ready to react instantly with zero warning if the car does something unexpected and dangerous.

[0]: https://www.kqed.org/news/11801138/apple-engineer-killed-in-...

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#36

Post by manicdee »

itsoktocry wrote: post #24
Manuel_D wrote: post #2

I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo.

> I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo. This is so disingenuous. Go on YouTube and search for people "self-driving" in their Teslas, then do the same for people doing anything remotely the same with standard cruise control. Tesla and its fanatics want…

Where is Tesla claiming that Autopilot is self-driving?

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#37

Post by cj »

Manuel_D wrote: post #28
itsoktocry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo. This is so disingenuous. Go on YouTube and search for people "self-driving" in their Teslas, then do the same for people doing anything remotely the same with standard cruise control. Tesla and its fanatics want…

Is this actually a problem with tesla marketing? Or is it a problem with people being dumb? An aircraft autopilot will happily fly you straight into a mountain. It just holds altitude and bearing. Everyone I know with a Tesla exclusively uses autopilot on the highway in between exits. I'm pretty baffled as to how some people think it's fully autonomous driving, and I'm dubious as to how culpable Tesla is for that ign…

> I'm dubious as to how culpable Tesla is for that ignorance.

Tesla labeling a feature "Full Self Driving" certainly isn't helping the situation when the feature clearly does not deliver what the name of the functionality implies.

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#38

Post by warning26 »

Manuel_D wrote: post #28
itsoktocry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo. This is so disingenuous. Go on YouTube and search for people "self-driving" in their Teslas, then do the same for people doing anything remotely the same with standard cruise control. Tesla and its fanatics want…

Is this actually a problem with tesla marketing? Or is it a problem with people being dumb? An aircraft autopilot will happily fly you straight into a mountain. It just holds altitude and bearing. Everyone I know with a Tesla exclusively uses autopilot on the highway in between exits. I'm pretty baffled as to how some people think it's fully autonomous driving, and I'm dubious as to how culpable Tesla is for that ign…

I knew it wouldn't take long for the "well AKCHTUALLY autopilot in planes just holds bearing therefore Tesla is BLAMELESS" crowd to appear.

Popular understanding of the word aside, Tesla often throws around phrases like "full self driving" in the same sentence as "autopilot".

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#39

Post by PKop »

Manuel_D wrote: post #32
MBCook wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was happening as often on Volvos or GM vehicles don’t you think they would be looking into it too?

Do neglectful people turn on cruise control and then rear-end other cars in their Volvos and GMs? I'm going to guess that there's plenty of such instances, but they're not as headline-prone as crashing Teslas. Hence, why this data would be useful for comparison.

Is Autopilot different than cruise control? Is it used differently?

If they're not the same thing why equate them?

Re: Tesla investigation deepens after more than a dozen US ‘Autopilot’ crashes

#40

Post by kube-system »

Manuel_D wrote: post #28
itsoktocry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder how many people turn on traditional cruise control and then crash due to neglectful driving. That's what we should be comparing Tesla Autopilot against, we should compare it against the status quo. This is so disingenuous. Go on YouTube and search for people "self-driving" in their Teslas, then do the same for people doing anything remotely the same with standard cruise control. Tesla and its fanatics want…

Is this actually a problem with tesla marketing? Or is it a problem with people being dumb? An aircraft autopilot will happily fly you straight into a mountain. It just holds altitude and bearing. Everyone I know with a Tesla exclusively uses autopilot on the highway in between exits. I'm pretty baffled as to how some people think it's fully autonomous driving, and I'm dubious as to how culpable Tesla is for that ign…

Maybe all we need is a requirement for type certification on people's drivers licenses before they can drive a Tesla.
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